Amena Brown:
Everybody welcome back to HER with Amena Brown. I know I tell you all the time that I'm excited, I mean, I'm excited to talk to you all, but I'm especially excited today because this is an episode that I have wanted to do for so long. So, we're talking about 40 AF today, and I am excited to welcome communication strategist, writer, illustrator, curator, Kristy Gomez, welcome to the HER living room.
Kristy Gomez:
Hey. I'm so happy to be here with you, Amena. I feel [inaudible 00:01:08].
Amena Brown:
Okay. So, let me tell you all how I first met Kristy, and I am a part of the CreativeMornings/Atlanta team now, but when I met Kristy, I wasn't. We were recruited she and her husband, and my husband and I, and some other creatives, we were recruited to brainstorm one year for CreativeMornings/Atlanta. And as soon as Kristy and her husband walked in the room, I was like, "Those are my people." They don't know me, and I don't know them, but I'm just looking at them, and I could tell by the way they dressed, the glasses, the jeans, everything, I was like, "Those are our people, and I need to know those people."
Amena Brown:
So, I don't know what I said, but I went over there and we did an introduction, and we talked hip hop, I was like, "Yes, these are my people. This was great." This led to me having coffee with you, Kristy, and you probably remember this. We met up at a coffee shop when you could do that in the before times.
Kristy Gomez:
Yes. Right. You could still be around people.
Amena Brown:
Yes. And breathe their air, and not be afraid of everything. It was a beautiful time, everyone. Okay? So, Kristy invited me to meet her for coffee on what I didn't know was your birthday. It was your birthday that day, I think.
Kristy Gomez:
Aww.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. So you were like, "I don't have a whole lot of time, but let's still have some coffee until my husband and my son come, and they're going to take me celebrate my birthday." So, you and I were chatting, talking about career trajectory, and I was at a big crossroads in my career at that time. I was predominantly performing in white conservative, evangelical environments at that time.
Kristy Gomez:
Oh, okay.
Amena Brown:
And I was describing that to you, and just telling you how I was feeling really dissatisfied with it, and I was telling you all the things that they wouldn't let me do. And you listened, and then you said, "Do you mean the things that you are allowing them to not let you be your full self, you're allowing that?" And I don't know if you all ever had a coffee with somebody like that, where you was like, "Oh, I thought we was going to have a latte, I didn't think you was going to get into my business like that."
Kristy Gomez:
I was going to drag my whole life in that moment.
Amena Brown:
And basically, you all Kristy was like, "Okay, well, it's been wonderful talking..." I'm sure we talked about some other things, but this is how it felt in the moment.
Kristy Gomez:
Right.
Amena Brown:
Right? I'm sure we chatted.
Kristy Gomez:
[crosstalk 00:03:29].
Amena Brown:
But it basically felt like... She was like, "Get your life. Okay. Well, here's my husband and my son, I'm going to go celebrate my birthday." And I was there in the coffee shop just grabbing my laptop and my dignity, my assumptions about my life, I was grabbing all my things. But one of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you about 40 AF, Kristy, is because there was something very empowering about what you were saying to me.
Amena Brown:
And so, it wasn't hurtful to me that you said it, I just had to really go home and sit with that, and think about how much of life, and my work, and just all of the different things that make up our time, what we're doing with our time, how much of that is me being in a box because I'm allowing myself to be there, because that's what someone else thinks it should be? Versus me feeling empowered as a Black woman to say, "This is what I really want my career to look like. This is what I really want to be doing." And if I'm in a space where I can't do that, then instead of me railing against the space, maybe it's time for me to find some new places to go, or be. So, you all-
Kristy Gomez:
Oh yes. We can talk about all of that.
Amena Brown:
Maybe one day Kristy will do a Coffee With Kristy series where she can just-
Kristy Gomez:
Man, listen, when we're allowed to go outside again, I'm going to be having coffee with everybody, because that's something that I truly love to do, just to sit around and just kiki it up with folks, especially with other Black women, because there is no other experience on earth like that. And so, to have someone who you can speak with and not have to have any caveat, to not have to explain things... I can say a sentence to you and... I can make a noise, I can say, "[noise]," and you know exactly what that means. I can say, "Well," and you know exactly what that means. I don't have to explain things to you.
Kristy Gomez:
So, there's a very certain and special space that I feel like Black women exist in, to where we're able to have a certain kind of vulnerability with each other that, to no fault of their own sometimes, I just don't have with other women. So, I'm willing to say things to Black women that I may not say to other women, because there's a certain understanding, there's a certain nurturing, a certain care that I know, and I hope they know that I'm coming at them with. It's because I care that I say this. It's because I give a fuck that I say this, you know what I mean?
Amena Brown:
Right.
Kristy Gomez:
And I expect the same because I'm so open to giving the same. So, when I don't get that back, ooh chile, it's an immediate shutdown.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Kristy Gomez:
Everything shuts down, the lesson is learned, and I have moved on. I would say that was... That conversation that we had is interesting because that advice that I gave you is advice that I desperately needed at that time as well, which I think is real funny that you can see something so clearly in someone else and know exactly what to say, but then to hear that back, it just doesn't get through. So, it really took me asking myself that question of why am I continuing to go to spaces where I'm not allowed to be fully who I am, to where I have to temper something? It might not be a lot, but if I have to temper something about myself to be accepted in that space, why am I there? Truly, why am I there?
Amena Brown:
Yeah. That's really what made me start thinking about this series, because I turned 40 in the middle of the pandemic. I turned 40 in May of 2020. And as I was leading up to that birthday, I started reflecting in particular on the conversations I'd had with other Black women who had already turned 40. And it was sort of like I was looking back and tracing all... It was sort of tracing the constellations right there of... There's some really empowering conversations, even briefly, sitting next to someone in a plane, and having to sit next to a Black woman artist, who may have been... Probably was in her mid to late 40s by that time, and she was like, "Let me tell you..." Kind of like what you described, she was like, "Let me tell you these things. If I had known, I would have done this. Now that I'm in my 40s, I don't take that." And these things.
Amena Brown:
And so, I thought, man, I would love some sort of a... If there could be a guide book that you could get, that would sort of usher you into this decade that seems so important formationally in a lot of ways, so I was like... You are top on my list, Kristy, to talk to you about this. So, I'm so glad that you agreed to come onto the podcast. Thank you so much.
Kristy Gomez:
Oh, of course. I can't think about a better person to have this conversation with, it's going to be a good one, because I'm going to tell you the truth.
Amena Brown:
And I'm here for it, that's what we want, everyone. Okay? Okay. Can you start with, what was the decade of your 30s like? If you could describe that to us, what was that time in your life like?
Kristy Gomez:
Oh boy. The decade of my 30s. When I turned 30, I was living in Bed-Stuy Brooklyn. I'd been there about... Ooh, almost maybe six or seven years by then. And the year I turned 30 was the year that I did my big chop.
Amena Brown:
Wow.
Kristy Gomez:
Because I didn't know what my hair looked like. I knew what it looked, because my hair was relaxed at the time, and I knew that when those little roots would come in, I would feel those little curls, and I would be like, "Ooh, I wonder what they look like. What would that be like?" So, one day I decided to go to Khamit Kinks in Brooklyn, and they shaved it off. And it was really a start of an interesting journey for me, because I was in a bad relationship at the time when I decided to do that. And it was really me starting to come into my own of, okay, I know what I want, and I know what I don't want. And during that period of time was when George and I started getting together. We were always friends at the time. But George is my husband now.
Kristy Gomez:
And while I was in this bad relationship, he and I were building our friendship, completely platonic, we were friends. But I mean, I was definitely attracted to him, he's real cute. So, we started kind of orbiting around each other in a friendship space, we had a lot of similar friends, and then he got wind that my relationship wasn't that great, the guy wasn't really treating me as he should have, and he was like, "You know what? I'm going to go get my girl." That's what he likes to say.
Kristy Gomez:
He was living in LA at the time, he was managing a couple of different bands, but he and I were friends, and he was like, "I want to go back home anyway, and she's there too, so let me just go ahead and go." And that was all she wrote, man. Once we were in the same city together, and I had a partner who was my friend, changed everything.
Amena Brown:
Oh yes.
Kristy Gomez:
Two years later, we were pregnant.
Amena Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). It'd be happening sometimes. It'd be happening.
Kristy Gomez:
I mean, babies be happening. It was Valentine's day, what are you going to do? So, when I was 32 was when I had my son. And from there, it has been a whirlwind. It has been a whirlwind of figuring out what that means to be Kristy, what that means to be a mother, what that means to be a partner. How each of those things can exist individually, and in the same person. Really understanding that... We're still in my 30s, some of these realizations that came to my 40s, I'm not going to even front, I knew this stuff in my 30s. But in my 30s, I really struggled with what I wanted to do versus what I thought I needed to do to make money. I mean, we live in a capitalist society, so there's certain things that you have to do to make money.
Kristy Gomez:
And going after jobs where I was going to make a lot of money was feeling good for a little bit, until it would start to not feel good anymore. And it would start to not feel good because what I realized is that I wasn't really doing what I wanted to do. I was doing something I was really good at, but I wasn't doing what I wanted to do. When I was in college, I went to school to be an artist.
Amena Brown:
Wow.
Kristy Gomez:
I wanted to draw, I wanted to paint, I wanted to do all the things. And then, I got a really bad critique in one of my art classes, and the teacher said, "I don't even know if you should be here." And I took that at face value and thought it was truth and fact, and pivoted and went into public relations, and communications, and writing, something else that I loved. I love to write, I consider myself a writer, but drawing and illustration is what I love to do. That's what little Kristy liked to do. And that pivot has plagued me my entire life.
Kristy Gomez:
And it wasn't until my 40s that I realized that I had to stop banging my head against this wall of what I think I'm supposed to be doing, what I've been told I'm supposed to be doing, and doing what I really truly want to do, and still being able to maintain my household, still being able to appreciate what I'm bringing to the world, and getting excited about what's next, because I truly don't know. I really don't know. I've stopped trying to plan stuff like that.
Amena Brown:
[noise] It's so much about this that's a word, you all. While Kristy is talking, I'm like, "I don't want to make too much noise typing notes for my own life."
Kristy Gomez:
Because you know I'll keep talking.
Amena Brown:
Okay. I'm like, "I'm glad we have a transcript for this, so I can go back and reread everything." Okay. So, talk to me about... When you were in your 30s, what did you imagine turning 40 was going to be like? Because I feel like... I mean, I don't remember being a teenager and imagining 20, but I remember being in my 20s and I imagined 30, and it was nothing like what I imagined.
Kristy Gomez:
Uh-uh (negative).
Amena Brown:
And then, I remember being in my 30s and still sort of having this idea like, okay, by the time I'm 40, I'll be doing this. And then, getting to 38 and being like, "Oh no, none of those things that I thought that was going to be are about to be that." So, what were you thinking your 40s or turning 40 was going to be like when you were in your 30s?
Kristy Gomez:
I thought 40 was going to be... I would have checked all the boxes. I'd be established in whatever that means. I would have all the trappings of what that means to be an established 40 year old. I thought I would just feel different. I thought I would feel 40. I feel 20. My mind hasn't caught up with the fact that... I'm like an auntie, I guess.
Amena Brown:
Please.
Kristy Gomez:
Sure, I'll be that, but I'm a dope ass auntie. I'm the coolest auntie you'll ever going to meet. You wish I was your auntie.
Amena Brown:
Okay. You hope when you get to be an auntie, you are like this, okay?
Kristy Gomez:
Aspire.
Amena Brown:
Please.
Kristy Gomez:
Aspire to what we have going on here. But I really thought that it would be... I thought that it would be what we were taught when we were younger that it should be. I thought it would be like the women that I saw when I was younger at 40, and it's not, and I wonder... I mean, we live what we're taught, what were they taught? What were they taught that was going to be like? And if they were taught one thing and it didn't wind up being that way, how did they cope with that? How did that manifest for them?
Amena Brown:
Exactly.
Kristy Gomez:
Because in thinking about how it manifested for me living in 2020-something, and seeing what it looks like now, versus what did it mean for women 40 years ago? And was it a lot more difficult for them? Did they have therapy? Did they have groups? Did they have somebody telling them to rest? Did they have somebody saying, "Take care of yourself?" No, they didn't. I feel like a young 40... Oh gosh, how old am I? 44. I felt like a young 44. I don't feel like what I'm supposed to feel like, I guess. I don't know.
Amena Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kristy Gomez:
I feel like there's mythology around what 40 plus is supposed to be, and it's so inaccurate. I wish more women now were honest about it. I wish I knew some of these things going into 40. And it kind of hearkens back to what I was just saying, it makes me wonder what our mothers and their mothers knew, because nobody told me... My mom didn't tell me half the things that are going on right now, it's been my girlfriends who are older than me that are like, "Let me tell you what's coming. Let me tell you this is normal. Let me tell you that is normal. Let me tell you, you're going to feel this kind of way, and that kind of way." I feel like it's allowed me to ease into this space a lot more gently than I would have without knowing some of the things that were coming.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. Ah, that's so good, because it's interesting to me to think about... Because I'm like, "I don't know that I've ever asked even my own mom, or my mother, or my grandmother what their lives were like when they turned 40." So, now I'm curious to ask and see... I mean, I can imagine thinking about the age I was at the time, thinking about the age my sister was, but how there's some women even in your family or that you were raised with that you don't come to know them as women until you are a grown woman yourself. So, you can reflect on sort of what your child self thought, but there may have been a whole lot more going on for them as grown women than they may have ever expressed, or let show in front of you as a child. So, that's really interesting to even think about that, what in their imagination their 40s was going to be, and how different that may have been.
Kristy Gomez:
And what pressures did they have on them at that time? What accommodations or compromises did they have to make on their own dreams and aspirations to be 40 and whatever that meant at that time? I personally feel like... And maybe that's just a privilege, is that I feel like we do have more room to kind of create that space for ourselves. I feel like now, that we're demanding more of that space, because everybody else demands it, everybody else does what they want, everyone else says what they want, why aren't we allowed to do that? Because what? Because we're black women, and because we got to take care of everyone else, and make sure everybody else feels okay. No, I'm not going to continue to deprioritize what I want for me.
Amena Brown:
You all I need a gavel.
Kristy Gomez:
[laughs].
Amena Brown:
I don't have... I've realized I've been-
Kristy Gomez:
I want to be the priority.
Amena Brown:
I need a gavel right here, because the other thing that's interesting also, as far as how I've come to view youth differently as I've gotten older, is in my mind. When I was younger, it was like, 50 was like, that's when you become a grandma, 50. But now, I'm like, I look at Regina King, Regina Hall, I'm looking at so many black women in their 50s and I'm like, "Well, I just got here to 40s, and if that's 50s, okay, okay."
Kristy Gomez:
Right?
Amena Brown:
Yes.
Kristy Gomez:
[crosstalk 00:20:06] well, that looks fantastic and fun.
Amena Brown:
Let me do that. When Regina Hall did... She did a birthday song video-
Kristy Gomez:
I saw that.
Amena Brown:
She had the sweatshirt hanging off the shoulder, and I was like, "I want this."
Kristy Gomez:
With a little loose curl.
Amena Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). I was like, "I want this. That's the life I want to have." Okay. Yes. Thank you, Regina. We love to see that. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kristy Gomez:
I guess, I can see myself in that, absolutely. But that's a wonderful point, is that you see these women that are 50 and you're like, "That's not what I was told 50 was." So, I love that there are more women, they're like, "Yeah, I am 50, and look at all of this. And you can do it too." Because the lie has been there, especially in Hollywood. You reach a certain age and you're put out to pasture. It's like, well, you can't do anything now, what are you here for? And it's that whole thing, I think, where you were going in terms of seeing youth differently.
Kristy Gomez:
I can't remember who said it, I think it was Fran Lebowitz who has this wonderful show on Netflix right now. And she was talking about age, and she was like, "At a certain point, you don't realize that you're going to change physically as you age because no one wants to talk about it. Because if you talk about it, you're acknowledging that it's happening to you." But for me, it's like, why wouldn't we talk about it? Because if you're denying what is coming, you're setting yourself up for failure. I mean, the way I look now, I'm not going to look like that in 10 years. So, the sooner I start shoring up the stuff about me that has nothing to do with my physical appearance, I mean, I'm going to be better for it.
Kristy Gomez:
Like we were talking about at the beginning of this call, during 2020, not having to be on as much, not having to go to a bunch of meetings and dress up, and this stuff, I've left myself alone. I've stopped a lot of the acoutrements-
Amena Brown:
Come on.
Kristy Gomez:
... that I put on, that I feel like I have to present to the world.
Amena Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kristy Gomez:
Skin is popping now, hair is growing now, because I'm leaving it alone. And it just makes me wonder, how much better would I have been if I just left myself alone and stopped trying to stop the inevitable?
Amena Brown:
Right. The process of acceptance.
Kristy Gomez:
I mean, what's the alternative to aging?
Amena Brown:
It's going to happen.
Kristy Gomez:
I'm going to have to age.
Amena Brown:
It's going to happen. I mean, there's things you can try to do, but there's some parts you just can't, you got to let it.
Kristy Gomez:
There's some parts that are going to be like, "Baby, this is what we're doing now."
Amena Brown:
You can try all sorts of things, you can string me up, you can pull me back, but I'm out here. That's it.
Kristy Gomez:
You can hoist me.
Amena Brown:
Okay. But I am out here. You all, I was telling Kristy before this call that one of the things I've discovered in my 40s is that when I gain weight, I'm going to gain it in the chest. Well, I didn't know that when I was 25, I didn't know that when I was 30, but I think I got to about 38, and I was like, "Okay, so [crosstalk 00:23:34]."
Kristy Gomez:
So, this is what's happening.
Amena Brown:
And then, I did look at my mom and my grandma, and I was like, "Yeah." A Black woman friend actually said to me recently, she said she is just... She's in her 30s, she said, "I'm getting to the point where I'm like, 'This is when you are in the body that you were seeing your mother and your aunties.'" You were seeing their bodies when you were younger, and you were like-
Kristy Gomez:
Oh wow.
Amena Brown:
You were observing, okay. And then, you get to a point where you're like, "Oh, I see some of that showing up now in my own body." And that being this interesting... I feel like the word that came into my mind as you were talking just now was this journey of acceptance, which is happening in the body, it's happening, and accepting, this is who I am. I don't need to make myself small or try to hope I'm staying out of the way of other people's expectations. This is me, these breasts... I actually was getting styled for a shoot recently, and the stylist was like, "Maybe from now on, if we're going to get wording on a shirt, we need to get it this part of your chest and above, okay? So that way we can read the thing." And I was like, "You're right. You ain't told a lie because if it go all the way down here, some words is lost." And that's fine, that's fine, but I need to-
Kristy Gomez:
And I mean, that's just the style choice.
Amena Brown:
Okay. A choice. If I want part of the sentence to get lost and it picked back up at the end of the shirt, well, we can do that soon.
Kristy Gomez:
You can just put on ellipses-
Amena Brown:
It's going to be... You all are go find it-
Kristy Gomez:
... and then it continues at the bottom.
Amena Brown:
You all are going to find it down here at the waistline, is where we're going to pick that sentence back up.
Kristy Gomez:
That's innovation.
Amena Brown:
Okay, please. Okay, Kristy, talk to me now, what was your life actually like as you were returning 40? How was that different from your expectations? Was it same, better to you? Discuss.
Kristy Gomez:
I could do some real talk here. I thought that I had found my dream job. When I moved to Atlanta, there was a company, I was like, "I'm going to work for them. That's me." And it took me a little while, but the work that I did, the reputation that I built, the caliber of my work got me to this place. And I thought that that was it, that I was going to live out my career with this company, because it was so amazing. And what wound up happening was that... I had stayed in that company for one year exactly, and on that one year date, they took my laptop and ushered me out of the building. And that was one of the hardest things that has ever happened to me in my entire life. And it made me really consider what I wanted to do and who I even was, because the whole mythology I'd set up for myself was I had to succeed in this space. If I didn't succeed in this space, then what the hell am I doing at all?
Kristy Gomez:
And as difficult the lesson as that was, that was the lesson that said, "Girl, you can keep doing this over and over if you want, or you can hear..." I mean, I believe in the universe, you can hear what the universe has been trying to tell you over and over and over, is that this isn't what you're supposed to be doing, not this. You're not supposed to be selling somebody's whatever, I'm supposed to be creating things. I'm supposed to be bringing things to life. I'm supposed to be writing, and telling stories, and all these things that fill me up. And since I've started doing that, the work has come. Since I said, "I'm doing this, I'm writing, and I'm drawing, and I'm telling stories that are about the things I want to tell stories about," that's what I'm doing now.
Kristy Gomez:
If I was still at that job, there's no way I could be doing this, because positions that ask a lot of you, and you feel like they're paying you a lot, you really have to consider what they're paying for. Why are they paying you that much? How much are you giving them? What are you worth to them? And that really played a game with my head in terms of being somebody that has always sought validation from authority figures, because my father retired as a colonel in the military, so I grew up on military bases my entire life. So, that outward validation was really, really important to me.
Kristy Gomez:
So, to be in a career space where the ultimate rejection came at me, oh so now we good. As someone who seeks validation, that was the ultimate... I was right back in college, girl, I was right back in that class, where the teacher said, "Maybe you're not supposed to be here." And so, that was really an opportunity for me to be like, "Okay, I can do what I did in college and pivot, or I can do what I'm doing now and just look straight ahead, and be like, "That's what I want to do. Let me go get that. Let me see what happens. Let me do something different."
Kristy Gomez:
And since I said, "Fuck it," and kind of went ahead very fearful, very scared, very nervous, but having the backing of my husband and my tribe, that are like, "Girl, you know you dope. You tell everybody else they dope, you can see it in everybody else, but you can't see it in yourself, get out of your own way and do your thing." And it's really having that team, and that tribe behind me that was my motivation to really just get up and be like, "Well, I'm going to just do kind of what I want to do and see what happens." And I haven't regretted a moment of it.
Kristy Gomez:
It was so hard, Amena, it really took me a year and a half, maybe more, to get to a place where I could even think of myself as being someone worthy of being hired to do anything.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Kristy Gomez:
Because that outward validation thing is a really hard thing to go through life with. And I feel like a lot of Black women, especially, we seek that validation without knowing that's what we're doing. Getting that praise, getting that accolade, getting that job, getting that whatever, it's like, "Okay, well, all this is worth it, so let's just forget all the bullshit, and let's go forward." But you have to pay attention to what the bullshit was, because that was there for a reason, too. And for me, the bullshit was just like, "Girl, you don't want to be selling X, Y, and Z's widget, or there whatever, that doesn't feed you." So, I'm not telling anybody to quit their job, or doing whatever they're doing, but make sure that that's not where your value sits in terms of what you do.
Kristy Gomez:
"You are not what you do, you are you." That's what Toni Morrison said. You're not the work that you do. And we've been taught that it is, and it's not. It's who you are, it's who you love, it's who you nurture. It's who you make an impact on five years ago, and don't even know that you did. I had no idea that that conversation that we had did that for you at all, because I see you doing all the damn things, taking your career... I remember when we talked about it, now that you've brought it up is making me remember, because you were questioning so many things, is this what I want to do? Do I want to do it like this? Do I want to look like this? Do I want to present like this? I feel like all those questions are just the universe being like, "Ask more. Ask more because you're going to come to it. Ask more." Yeah, I'm going to stop talking because you know I'll keep going.
Amena Brown:
Right. The jewels are here, everyone, I hope your hands are... Oh, if you're driving, don't do that. But otherwise, if you're not driving, I hope you're receiving the jewels, because I'm so... The words you're saying are so important because it even reminds me how... I feel like such a central question of my late 30s into 40s was, what do I want? And it's not a question that I feel like I was trained to continually ask myself and honor the answer, I was trained to be like, "Well, what do they want? What would make them feel good? What would make them feel more comfortable?"
Amena Brown:
I had all those questions in my mind, but when I got to the, what do you want? It's such a powerful question, because I've got to sift through. I had to do a lot of sifting through of like, okay, well, no, it's not what makes them comfortable, and it's not this stuff they said they see about you, and getting down to, this is what I really want to be doing. And it does open up this highway of sorts inside when you can come to it, and you won't just come to it once either. I feel like for me, what was happening in my career was, I thought 40s was going to be cruise control, that's what I thought in my 30s. I was like, "When I turn 40, I'm just going to turn on the cruise control. I'm going to take my foot off the gas. I'm going to coast somewhere.
Kristy Gomez:
[crosstalk 00:33:43] You got it by 40.
Amena Brown:
I have been working so hard, this is my time to rest on my laurels, whatever. And 40 came in like, oh, honey, everything is shaken up. Everything you thought she was going to do-
Kristy Gomez:
[crosstalk 00:33:56].
Amena Brown:
... that's not going to be. But this thing you never thought you could do, that thing going to be. I mean, it's a wild... Look, when I was turning 40 last year, I was like, "Everything I thought I would be doing, I'm not doing, and things I had just almost written off for myself, like, I'll never be able to do that. Oh, I would never get a contract to be the face of a campaign for Olay turning 40, I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do that." And then, when the contract came in, I was like, "You're going to be doing it. You're going to be doing that." Which was outside of my expectations for myself.
Kristy Gomez:
[crosstalk 00:34:36].
Amena Brown:
And that made me think like, why not... I mean, one of the things I've been thinking about this year, Kristy... I'm sorry we letting you all in on this conversation that me and Kristy will for real, for real be having if we were somewhere. But one of the things-
Kristy Gomez:
[crosstalk 00:34:48].
Amena Brown:
... that's coming to my mind, Kristy, is I'm thinking about... I want to ask more boldly of life and of myself. I want to ask more boldly. Sometimes I'm like, "I do ask of myself, and I do ask of whatever things I'm working on, of the creative process, I ask of that, but sometimes my asks are too small, I think." That's what I've been thinking the beginning of this year. Is this not a season of time to ask boldly, to expect bold things of life, and of yourself? Right?
Kristy Gomez:
If not now, then when?
Amena Brown:
Exactly.
Kristy Gomez:
And think about... Your personal tool belt is full right now, it's not completely full, and you still got time left. But think about all the tools that you're taking into your 40s now. You can spot a bullshit, you can smell it and see it a mile away. You know what you don't want. So, you're just not going to deal with that, you've avoided that already. And I feel like we're just more... I'm more open to the possibilities now than I used to be, more open to the possibilities for myself. I'm not limiting myself as much anymore. Because there were things that I wanted to do that I just felt, well, that's just a dream. That's not real. That's not something that could happen. And I'm doing it right now, literally doing the dream that I wanted to do.
Kristy Gomez:
A girlfriend of mine who has been pushing me for years to step out of myself, and just see myself as the artist I am, has been telling me, "you're a creative director." I'm like, "Girl, stop." And looking at the projects that I've been doing for the past 10 years, I have been creative directing these things, but I didn't see it that way. That's just what I do. Oh, I did this, and I did that, and I did communications for them, and I did this gallery show, and I did all this stuff, where did these skills come from? What do you call that stuff? I've been creative directing.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Kristy Gomez:
Now, I'm working on a project where I am the creative director of this whole thing, and it's like, it's so easy, Amena, it comes so naturally. There aren't all these pressures of me trying to be something that I'm not, because I brought my whole self to them, and was like, "This is me. You going to get the Afro, you're going to get the cursing, you're going to get all of this, and it's going to be dope, if you let me rock." And they let me rock, and it's been great.
Kristy Gomez:
But I had to believe that that existed. I had to believe that there were spaces where they weren't going to make me temper anything about myself. As loud as I am, as funny as I am, all of that, none of that would be tempered. I mean, I was working in spaces where they were telling me that I shouldn't be asking questions because a person in your position should know the answer to that. I was being told, "Have you sought therapy before?" I was being told, "This is a privilege for you to even be traveling." In these kind of spaces as a grown-ass woman being told these things, and now being in a space where that wouldn't even fly on Slack [crosstalk 00:38:21] doing something like that, let alone in person.
Amena Brown:
Listen, forget Zoom. You ain't going to be on there talking crazy either.
Kristy Gomez:
Hey. It's just really shown me that there's mythology that we've been sold as far as what this journey has to look like, and it doesn't benefit us because it wasn't built for us. You know what I mean? It just wasn't built for people who just don't fit into a very square space. That's not meant for everybody. And I feel like that we're taught that everybody can fit there if you just you know, scrunch and squeeze, and do all these things, but to your own detriment. Making yourself smaller in any space is never going to be a good thing, because it diminishes your capacity.
Amena Brown:
Yep.
Kristy Gomez:
And we have capacity for so much, and I just want to do all of it. And I want all my women and girls to do all of it too, because there's so much that we're taught that we can't do, and it's a lie. And the sooner we see that it's a lie, the sooner we can pass it on to other women and girls, and they can start living fully too. That's what I want.
Amena Brown:
You all, I'm [noise]. I am like Kristen Wiig gif right now. If you all can see me, I'm [inaudible 00:39:54] and teeth over here. Okay.
Kristy Gomez:
Oh, I love it.
Amena Brown:
That's what I have for you all. I know you all can't see it, but that's how it is. Look at that, that's what I'm doing right now. You discussed this a little bit, but I'd love to hear a little bit more. When you think about your 40s so far, do you see a theme coming up? Do you see any type of pattern there as far as other lessons that you're learning, other things that you love about this season of life?
Kristy Gomez:
One big lesson is acceptance, and that things are going to be what they are. When you get to your 40s, your body is going to change, not for the worst or the better, it's going to change, because that's what happens biologically. And that's okay. And this pushing against whatever that's going to be, whether you spread here, whether you get smaller there, that is your body that gets you up every single day.
Kristy Gomez:
And for a long time, I pushed against all of that. I didn't really see my body as a vehicle for me to do all the stuff that I want to do, so I was pinching it, or squeezing it, or pulling it, or something like that, and it's like, why am I doing all that to it? And what really flipped it for me was, what would I tell little Kristy? Would I have little Kristy pinching her sides, or trying to suck in her little mama belly, or any of that stuff? I would never advise any young woman that I know to change herself in that way. And why am I advising myself that? And so, it was really acceptance of, nah, all that's bullshit. It truly is all bullshit.
Kristy Gomez:
There's a whole industry built around telling us that something is wrong with us. Your hair, your eyes, your skin, your body, everything, there's something that needs to be improved, and accepting that I don't need to be improved. There might be some things that I would like to be better, but I don't need to be improved. So, accepting a lot of this stuff about me physically and emotional flaws, personality flaws. They're not even flaws, but just stuff about me. I'm hella hard-headed. I am very, very stubborn. Sometimes the lesson has to punch me square in the face, to probably be like, "Oh, damn, okay, I get it. I get it." But accepting that about myself allows me to avoid some of it, not all of it, but some of it.
Kristy Gomez:
I can see that I'm being stubborn for no reason other than I am, and that allows me to be like, "All right, deep down, sis, just do something a little bit different." So, once I accept those parts about me, it's easier for me to see them as part of the whole, and not just one part of me that I don't like, or one part of me that I struggle with. While her stubbornness is a part of all of her, her stubbornness is what makes sure that people don't try to run over her. Her stubbornness is what makes sure that her ideas in a creative director's space are going to be heard and championed the way they need to be.
Kristy Gomez:
So, it's like just accepting the things about yourself and just saying, "Fuck it." Because what's the alternative. You going to be raging against yourself your whole life? That's exhausting. For what? You could be sitting on a beach somewhere with your belly out, getting brown-
Amena Brown:
Come on.
Kristy Gomez:
[crosstalk 00:43:33] nobody thinking about you.
Amena Brown:
That part really.
Kristy Gomez:
That's the other thing. Ain't nobody think about you.
Amena Brown:
No. Mm-mm (negative). Not as much as you give an energy to it. They not... Mm-mm (negative).
Kristy Gomez:
Not as-
Amena Brown:
No.
Kristy Gomez:
That's it.
Amena Brown:
Nope.
Kristy Gomez:
That's it. Not as much as we give the energy to. Imagine giving that energy back. As much as we worry about, ooh, what they going to think, or, ooh, I'm wearing this at CreativeMornings today, or, ooh, oh my hair, nope, not going do it.
Amena Brown:
No.
Kristy Gomez:
Just not going to do it. Put the energy into something else.
Amena Brown:
Okay. Listen, these breasts that God decides they are, it's going to be cleavage out here in these streets sometimes, okay? And I-
Kristy Gomez:
Ain't nothing wrong with the mammaries.
Amena Brown:
Look, I was raised Pentecostal, normally, you going to safety pin that thing until you can't see... You going to make sure ain't nothing down there. And I'm like, "You know what? They out here now. You got a problem, go to another page. Scroll on."
Kristy Gomez:
You know what that is? That is abundance.
Amena Brown:
Okay.
Kristy Gomez:
Abundance, ma'am, embrace all of that abundance.
Amena Brown:
Listen-
Kristy Gomez:
I'm not mad at a Coke bottle, I see you.
Amena Brown:
You know what? We didn't even know... Especially when I was in my 20s, my friends would be like, "She want a milkshake, and this burger and this chicken, we want her to eat food." That's how my 20s body was. Everybody was like, "We want to make sure you're eating enough food." Now I'm like, "I don't know I was going to get these curves, but you know what? While you out here, let's get some air and some breeze, sis, okay?"
Kristy Gomez:
Okay. I love it.
Amena Brown:
You all going to deal with this out here, please.
Kristy Gomez:
They should be allowed.
Amena Brown:
Please. What advice would you give to a woman who's about to turn 40, she's looking at it? When you get to be about 38, sometimes 39, you start looking at 40, what would you tell a woman listening who's at the cusp of this decade?
Kristy Gomez:
I would tell her to disregard any preconceived notions and boundaries that she has put on herself in anticipation of what 40 is going to mean. Because the day she turns 40, the day after is going to be the same thing. So, this, oh my God, I'm going to turn 40, she's going to be disappointed, because 41, 42, you get to do more, you get to live more, you realize more. So, I would ease into 40. I would ease into it gently. Don't put any hard mandates on yourself, because it's unfair to put those hard mandates on yourself for a time that you don't even know what is going to come for you yet. 40 may be the decade that changes your entire life, or it may be the decade that... Nope, it absolutely will be the decade that changes your entire life because you don't know what's coming.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Kristy Gomez:
And whatever is coming, it's up to you to make it whatever it is. It is truly your journey to write and to map out. And don't believe the narratives of anybody else, because nobody can define your narrative but you. And I know people say that over and over, and it seems cliche, but it's cliche because it's true. Truly, nobody is going to be able to tell you what you should do, or how you should do it, because at the end of the day, the only person that's going to have to deal with it is you. So, do what you want to do, what makes you happy, what feeds you, what fills you, and everything else will fall into place the way it's supposed to. Prioritize yourself.
Amena Brown:
I have feelings like I've been in a church service, I keep being like, "Is somebody going to take up the offering? Are the ushers here?" I don't know, it feels like that.
Kristy Gomez:
What's interesting about that is that my grandfather was a Baptist preacher, and me growing... I grew up in the church and then separated from the church after a while. But the lesson for me and all of that was, again, you cannot believe the mythology of anyone else. You have to believe and follow your own path in your own narrative. Because even in that space, there are certain things that are dictated to you, just us.
Amena Brown:
That's right.
Kristy Gomez:
You need to listen all of this just because... And for some people, that works, and I think that's beautiful, and it does. But for others who may not fit within the confines of a certain system, bumping up against those edges feels really uncomfortable, and I feel like that uncomfort is for a reason.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. There's some journey in there when you can allow yourself to sit in it and let it unfold as it's supposed to. Yeah. Kristy-
Kristy Gomez:
But taking that time to sit in it and be quiet, and sit in it, and to really... You may hear some things you really don't want to, and confront some things that may be hard too. But for me, it's what's on the other side, and that's acceptance on the other side. But I'm a hot ass mess, but you know what? I still love all this messiness, because from this messy... You're more than just your mess. There's so much more to you than just the things that you see as your mess, let me say it like that. Because I know what I see as my mess, other people probably don't, they see that as, "Oh, that's Kristy's creativity, or that's what makes her this, that, or the other." So, don't believe your own mythology either.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Kristy Gomez:
Yeah.
Amena Brown:
Kristy, I knew it was going to be great.
Kristy Gomez:
Okay.
Amena Brown:
I knew it was going to be great, and it was even better than I could have imagined.
Kristy Gomez:
I could literally just sit here and talk to you.
Amena Brown:
Seriously.
Kristy Gomez:
[crosstalk 00:49:33] talking, and then I can use big curse words. I didn't want to say any on your podcast.
Amena Brown:
Look, I welcome all the words we need to express ourselves. If I have-
Kristy Gomez:
[crosstalk 00:49:46].
Amena Brown:
If I have to put a little E on it, I do, because my momma be listening, but at least she'll be warned. I'll be like, "We on here talking grown, ma, it's the E there."
Kristy Gomez:
My bad, mom.
Amena Brown:
Okay? You'll be all right. You'll be all right. She know those words too. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kristy Gomez:
Yeah. She probably taught them to you.
Amena Brown:
Okay, I learned from the best. Kristy, oh my gosh, tell me... How can the people stay connected to you, stay connected to your work? You are a creative in a family of creatives. Tell me more how the people can stay connected with you.
Kristy Gomez:
Sure. They can follow me and my creative family on Instagram @thatgomezlife. It's my husband, George, my son, Elijah, who is the star of the story, as I call him, and then me. As a family, we create together under the name Gomez, and we're just out here living that good COVID life, and just creating things together as a family right now. You can follow me on Instagram @bkmagnolia, and hopefully, I will see you in the streets of Atlanta when we're allowed to be out again.
Amena Brown:
I can't wait.
Kristy Gomez:
That's one thing I do love about this city, is running into people just at the most auspicious time, and just being surprised, and I really just miss that a lot.
Amena Brown:
So, so much. Kristy, thank you for joining me on the podcast-
Kristy Gomez:
Thank you.
Amena Brown:
... for sharing your story and your wisdom, for standing up into your truth, sis. Thank you. You all, when I tell you all I am riveted by this conversation with Kristy, I hope you are too. Whatever the decade is in which you find yourself, I hope you're encouraged to make the space to be yourself, to think about what you want, and not make yourself small for anyone.
Amena Brown:
For this week's edition of Give Her A Crown, I want to shout out actress, comedian, Tasha Smith.
Amena Brown:
A few years ago, I was flying to Chicago for a gig and got upgraded to first class, I ended up sitting next to Tasha. I tried to play it cool, I know she's a celebrity, and some people on the flight had already been passing notes to her, so I didn't want to bother her. But we struck up some small talk, and small talk became real talk, and she started telling me all of the beautiful things she discovered about herself, her work, and her worthiness in her 40s.
Amena Brown:
She talked to me about what it was like being a Black woman in Hollywood, how she learned to make her own way by producing, directing TV and film, and starting her own academy for actors. We laughed and my husband and I even got to have dinner with her and a friend that night on a snowy Chicago evening. Tasha Smith, thank you for being a trailblazer, for creating art that makes us laugh, and for making a way for the other artists coming after you. Tasha Smith, Give Her A Crown.
Amena Brown:
HER with Amena Brown is produced by Matt Owen for Sol Graffiti Productions as a part of the Seneca Women Podcast Network in partnership with iHeartRadio. Thanks for listening, and don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast.