Amena Brown:
Welcome to another episode of HER with Amena Brown. I feel like today is one of those days where I'm in my feelings a little bit, and I'm going to tell you all it's good energy. It's like good things are happening. I know I could be feeling this way because, at the time of this recording, we are the day after the inauguration. And do we have a long way to go? Yes, we do here in the States, we have a long way to go. But are we at least slightly less stressed that we have a different administration right now? Yes, we are slightly less stressed.
Amena Brown:
So I'm just going to tell you, it's a lot of things to be worried about. But let's just take in a little bit of good energy right now. Let's just take in a little bit of breath of fresh air right now. Listen, we have a guest in our HER living room today. I want to welcome award-winning Webby-nominated writer best known for the satirical Twitter account Honest Toddler and her debut novel Confessions of a Domestic Failure, her newest book, Dear God: Honest Prayers to a God Who Listens is out now. Welcome to the HER living room, Bunmi Laditan.
Bunmi Laditan:
Thank you. Thank you so much, Amena. It is an honor to be here. Thank you for having me.
Amena Brown:
So Bunmi, we need to have a little talk right now. And the talk is going to be about Black Twitter. I want to start with that because Black Twitter is such a blessing. It brings a lot of blessing and also a lot of mess to my life. And the mess is also a blessing. Because sometimes the mess is like the distraction that I didn't know I needed. It's like people get wrapped up in some story. And I'm like, "Yes, I want to get on here and find out why this is trending, why this word right here is trending."
Amena Brown:
But I'm going to tell you a subset of Black Twitter that's very important, is Black girl Twitter. That's like a subset of Black Twitter of which Bunmi and I are a part. And I feel like there's an additional subset based on your industry. So I feel like people who are in the writer, author, speaker, blogger, creative vibes like that, there is a subset of Black girl Twitter that's like that. And I feel like that's how Bunmi and I are connected. It's like a lot of our mutual friends are also Black girl writer, Black girl author, doing those things.
Amena Brown:
So I feel like we're getting to, you know how when you go to a Black cookout or something like that. And then you could sit at the table with somebody while you eat ribs or whatever you do when you're there. And so you and I are sitting at that picnic table today. Black Twitter is a big old, it's like if a cookout and a block party had a baby that's what Black Twitter is online.
Amena Brown:
So Bunmi, you and I are getting to just grab our own little picnic table out in the park. And while other people are doing the Electric Slide, we're just here getting to have a little conversation. So thank you so much for being on the podcast.
Bunmi Laditan:
Thank you. So I pictured that whole thing, we have our cups, we have our drinks, and we're just going underneath this little [inaudible 00:03:33].
Amena Brown:
Sitting out there. And for my friends that have kids, there's always like... We don't have any kids. So if I'm sitting at a thing like that, and I'm with a friend who has children, there's also a mix of like "And then, girl, I said hold on. I said don't eat that anymore. I told you no more, no. No, go play. Anyway, girl. So then I said." So I feel like that would be happening. Would that be happening? Would that be your vibe?
Bunmi Laditan:
Yes. Okay. So, before I do anything, trying to better myself in my life, trying to have a career and connect with people, I have a press conference with my children wherein I warn/bribe/threaten them. And I did that today. But we might get a little bit because they still don't listen. So I might get the youngest one who feels personally attacked when I'm trying to do things come in here.
Bunmi Laditan:
And at that point, you will hear me be like, "What should I say? What did I say?" You might hear a little bit of that voice come out. It's important to know that that's not me. It's just this voice that comes out.
Amena Brown:
I appreciate the differentiation and I need to ask a clarification question regarding this press conference. Because my husband and I joke all the time that my mom had a talk she would give not even before we went somewhere, but right before we went inside. So we're driving there, we're listening to whatever music, but if she puts you in a shopping cart, or... My sister is younger than me, so she put her in a shopping cart, and I'm there, right before we go in the store, it's like a little moment right there. And it's the same moment that happens if we were going to someone's house. We were never... I feel like the car would have been a good time. But for some reason... Maybe she wanted it like, first of mind when you went in there.
Amena Brown:
So it be right before she rung the doorbell, we're all standing there at the door. And it's like this look. And she would say the same three sentences, "Don't touch nothing. Don't break nothing. Don't embarrass me." And then she would ring the doorbell. And in two seconds, that person's like, "Oh, hey, welcome to so and so's birthday party." And my sister and I, are there just looking like afraid to do anything at all.
Amena Brown:
So when you have this press conference with your kids, where it's not that you're going someplace, but it's that you got a thing you got to do, what are the expectations? What are you saying to them when you have the meeting?
Bunmi Laditan:
I'm letting them know, "Do you like being in a home? Do you like having four walls? Because that cost money. Do you like the food we have?" That costs money. So the different thing, so mommy has a job, mommy is a person. I know it might be a shock to everybody in this home but mommy actually has things going on other than snack time, and lunchtime, dinnertime. So sometimes I'm going to work, sometimes I'm going to talk to people.
Bunmi Laditan:
And when I'm going to do those things, I need you to do the things that I told you to do. In this case, it's multiplication drills on YouTube, which I feel like is school. So I need you guys to do that. And when you're done with that, I said they can go on their devices, but I am unavailable. I'm here, but I'm not here. This is a long-distance relationship for one hour. And I specify a time, I need one hour. And I say that over and over again. And I let them know.
Bunmi Laditan:
An important part of the talk is to let them know that if they crossed that line, eventually you will be off the phone. There is going to be after the party, we are going to reunite. And depending on how this time goes, that changes how the reuniting will go. And what will happen after that, because they know nothing's going to happen while I'm talking to you here. And this is being recorded. But after, how do you want that to be? What face do you want to see? What do you want to happen or not happen?
Amena Brown:
I need this so bad.
Bunmi Laditan:
A little scary but not too scary, I feel.
Amena Brown:
I need this so bad because I appreciate you bringing up the reuniting parts because it was like my mom could go from like, "Don't embarrass me" to that person opening the door. And she's like, "Hey, we're so happy to see..." It was like another somebody is there when she's in a space where other people are there. And there's only so far she intends to go having to get with you in that public space because that falls under the category of embarrassing her. But when those people aren't around-
Bunmi Laditan:
Yes. When the witnesses have left.
Amena Brown:
... you're going to have a time where you got to be there with her alone. It was like whatever that is, I don't want it.
Bunmi Laditan:
You don't want it.
Amena Brown:
I don't want it.
Bunmi Laditan:
You don't need it.
Amena Brown:
Mm-mm (negative).
Bunmi Laditan:
You don't need it. Because you know you can go so far when there are other people around. Because you know even your mom has limits what she's willing to do in public. But when you're home, and it's just you and her, you don't want that-
Amena Brown:
No, whatever it is-
Bunmi Laditan:
You don't want it.
Amena Brown:
... whatever it is-
Bunmi Laditan:
Nobody wants that.
Amena Brown:
No. She had a couple of times where I felt like she also would just say things like, "And if you don't do this thing I'm saying." And then it was like she would just get quiet right there. I don't even have the fill-in-the-blank of exactly what happens. I just feel like whatever that is, I don't want it. But I was the oldest kid. So I was very like, "She said this. I don't want that. So I'm not going to do that."
Amena Brown:
Then my sister came along and my sister was like, "Mom, when you say these things to me, it's really not helpful for effective communication between the two of us. And I feel like there might be some other ways that you can maybe communicate to me your desires about what you want my behavior to be, but this way that you're communicating it's not effective for us. So what's another way we can find?" And I'm staring at her like-
Bunmi Laditan:
Shocked.
Amena Brown:
... "Why are you talking to her like that? Why are you living?"
Bunmi Laditan:
Scared. Yes, that's a second-born thing. See, that is a second born, specifically a second-born daughter. I have a theory because I have an older daughter and then I have a middle daughter. The first daughter is like, "These are the rules. I don't want to break them. I'm afraid of consequences." Second born is like, "Okay, so we're coworkers, we're equals. I think we should come up with the rules together. Because none of these are working for me. I'm going to be honest with you. None of these are working for me. And I'm not afraid of any of these consequences. So, I don't know. Can I have a snack? I don't know. I don't know." That's how the second borns come in. And the first ones were just shocked. Like, "I can do this?" But they can't because they weren't-
Amena Brown:
No.
Bunmi Laditan:
... that's not even inside of them, they can, but they're shocked.
Amena Brown:
Complete shock. Even to this day, I still look at my sister sometimes she's talking to my mom like, "We grown." And I still be looking like, "Wow, yeah, this is a conversation you all have? This is allowed?" So now it's almost like I'm looking at my mom like, "This is allowed? This is allowed because it wasn't allowed when you were raising me." You was on your, "No, this is what we're doing." My sister comes along, "Now you want to have a conversation? Now you want dialogue?" I had no dialogue, it was a monologue, was soliloquy. Get out of here."
Bunmi Laditan:
All of a sudden you're talking to kids. Okay.
Amena Brown:
Please, who even knew?
Bunmi Laditan:
But it's not personal. It's just because the second borns come out wild, they come out different and we're caught off guard. Because things don't affect them in the same way.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Bunmi Laditan:
No, I can give my oldest one a look. And she will be shaking inside. Just a look. My second born will give me a look back. And? Give me a look back.
Amena Brown:
We got problem? We got problem here?
Bunmi Laditan:
You have to think of something new.
Amena Brown:
Please. Oh my gosh, you all.
Bunmi Laditan:
Wait, I have to escalate. She causes me to escalate.
Amena Brown:
No. First of all, not a child with a personality that makes you have to escalate because it's like you normally reserve that word for when you're in a customer service situation. And you're like, "Somebody's got to call the manager." But now you're like, "This is my child. And you're making me escalate. And I'm the manager."
Bunmi Laditan:
I'm the manager. And then you have to act crazy because you can't... the Battle of the wills. I don't know if this is good parenting or not. Someone told me once you have to win every fight until there's three... I don't know if that was good parenting advice or not. But I took it. I just took it.
Bunmi Laditan:
One time, my second born, so she just was like kept going. And I had this flash to those moments of those morning shows. We had the out-of-control team. That's where it comes from. I was like, "I'm not going to be that mom on that show with the out-of-control talking to me [crosstalk 00:12:35] in whatever way." And so she won't do her homework, I said, "Start it now, I'm going to throw your iPad out of the window into the snow." It was on the second story. I said, "Start it now or this iPad's going out the window." I don't know, I'd snapped, I'd lost it. So guess where that iPad went? Because she wanted to challenge me. It went out the window.
Amena Brown:
What?
Bunmi Laditan:
All kids were shocked. But did she do her homework? Yes. My oldest one was horrified. She's like [gaps], but it got quiet. She did her homework. I went out later, I got it. Luckily, it still worked. It turned itself off. It was so cold or whatever. But it worked, with a waterproof case, didn't [laughs]
Amena Brown:
Come on waterproof case.
Bunmi Laditan:
But it was different after that, because I think she realized, "Okay, this lady is truly crazy." Because to children, the iPad is life. It is their second parent. It is all of this thing. So when I threw it out the window, it was almost like I feel like a pet out the window, like a dog out the window. So maybe they saw themselves going out the window. I don't know. But it worked. And after that our relationship totally, some people would say it broke, but I will say it changed, where she respected me more. Or she's afraid. I don't know. Either way, it worked. The homework got done.
Amena Brown:
I'm just saying, so any of you parents listening, if you need to sacrifice that iPad at one time-
Bunmi Laditan:
One time.
Amena Brown:
... kids don't even understand, they don't even understand how buildings work. I don't care if you toss it out the window and the window is on the same level as the house. We don't care. If you need to sacrifice that iPad for the people, you do what you need to do, parents, you do what you need to do to make it.
Bunmi Laditan:
I'm glad you said for the people because it's not just about me. These kids will grow up. The kids on Maury, they grow up. I don't know what they're doing in the world not respecting people. I did this for all of us. [crosstalk 00:14:29] for everybody. This was not just for me. This is for you. This was for the whole world. This is for humanity.
Amena Brown:
Okay.
Bunmi Laditan:
I threw the iPad out the window for humanity.
Amena Brown:
For humanity as a service to the world is what we're talking about, people.
Bunmi Laditan:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
Yes. Bunmi, I'm just... When I tell you all this was not even what we planned to talk about. But I needed this conversation. This is a HER Favorite Things episode and talking to Bunmi is also one my favorite things. I'm sure, maybe one day Bunmi and I will record an after-dark episode of HER with Amena Brown.
Bunmi Laditan:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
I need to really figure this out because I have a few people that I interview on this podcast that I'm like, "There are other things that we could have super inappropriate conversation about that wouldn't maybe work for this setting, but I need to find a place that you have to have a password to log into it and be like, but if you want to listen to me and Bunmi talk about this on the after dark version of HER, you can listen to us talk about that. Okay, please."
Amena Brown:
So, this is HER Favorite Things episode. And I want to start by asking you what is your favorite Black girl hairstyle? This is all of Black girl life. This could be growing up, it could be currently. What's a favorite that you have?
Bunmi Laditan:
Well, I have locks right now. But my all-time favorite style for me or to see on any other Black girl, braids. Braids with like kanekalon. I see things that I never say it, I'm talking about braids with synthetic 2B or 1B hair. And just like the individuals. Not super small because anytime I see someone with the micro braids, I always have to imagine them trying to take them down and it ruins it for me. Even if it looks good, I feel like I'm part of that takedown process. I don't know why. But just individual shiny braids, I love them.
Amena Brown:
I'm not going to lie, I just went back and rewatched Poetic Justice. And seeing Janet Jackson and Regina King's braids, there was a scene where Janet was... I don't remember if she was just, you know how they had a lot of scenes where she was reflecting and then her poetry voice was the voiceover. She pulled one of the braids up and lit that lighter. When I tell you, I think I left my body for a second. I had a Black girl out-of-body experience.
Amena Brown:
As soon as I heard the click of the lighter, I was like, "Oh, sis. Come on and burn the end of that braid. Yes."
Bunmi Laditan:
Get it done. I was more like a dipper myself, to dip them, and just that feeling of your braids freshly done and a little wet. The back's a little wet or whatever, it doesn't matter. And just going home, your braids are done for the next however months you're going to try to keep those in. I was really a five, six-month person no matter what. I was like a really, I'm going to extend this type raggedy person. When I was [inaudible 00:17:41] even now. It just felt so good.
Bunmi Laditan:
And whenever I see someone just rocking those braids, I feel so proud. I feel so nostalgic. Yeah, I just feel so happy. I feel so happy because there were so many styles that I feel like especially as a child that made you not be able to do things. It can't get wet, I can't do this, and braids, you could do anything. You could do anything. Put up in a ponytail and go live my life. And so, just makes me feel free and just happy.
Amena Brown:
That's such a good point. I never thought about the ways that our hairstyles, some of our Black girl hairstyles felt like they were limiting us. But braid ended that. Even my mom's frustration of like, "We got to go to church or we got to go wherever we're going to go and now. I got to do your hair." But when it's braided, it's like everyone's free from that. You can swim, you can go to the waterpark, you can do whatever, sweat, you can do whatever it is and not be worried.
Amena Brown:
And this is a great segue to my next Favorite Things question. I want to talk about some particular braids that really gave me the life is when Beyonce released Formation. And she was in that car that was doing the circles in the parking lot. And those long braids that now are called lemonade braids. If you go to get your hair braided-
Bunmi Laditan:
I didn't even know that.
Amena Brown:
Okay, they are now called lemonade braid. So I don't know what they were before. But they ain't that. When you Google now, it's like, do you want these lemonade braids? And she was leaning out of the window of that car and those braids were cascading down. I was like, "This is a life I want to live." I was like I-
Bunmi Laditan:
I know.
Amena Brown:
It was everything. This leads me to my next thing. Do you have a favorite Beyonce song and I want to preface this okay. I don't want to preface this by saying okay, not every Black girl likes Beyonce. I don't know that many. But not every Black girl likes Beyonce. Nor does every Black girl have to like Beyonce. So if I asked this question and you're like, "Not really my thing." We'll put another artist name there but talk to me. Do you have a favorite Beyonce song and if so, what is it?
Bunmi Laditan:
I do. And I know you mean not every Black girl has to like Beyonce. But even if for whatever reason something happened and a Black girl doesn't like Beyonce, something happened, that's so condescending, but whatever. Let's say she has a reason. Let's say she has a valid reason. Her influence is so undeniable and so Black and so... I don't know. It's so undeniable and her artistry transcends waste and transcends even her gender. Her artistry, her genius. I'll stop, but it's... Yeah, okay. Listen. It's Listen, the song is Listen.
Amena Brown:
Okay.
Bunmi Laditan:
I'm not going to sing it. I'm not going to make a fool out of myself today.
Amena Brown:
We are here at a microphone. If you need to get that going, Bunmi, you just let me know. I might have a little background vocal if you need it.
Bunmi Laditan:
You will come in on background? So that's-
Amena Brown:
I might come in. So just let me know if that's what we need. But yes, Listen. What about it makes you love it?
Bunmi Laditan:
Oh, my goodness, I feel like it's my anthem. I would play that song a lot when I was going through a big breakup. A divorce actually, is not a big breakup. But it made me think of just all the times in my life when I let other people speak for me and define me and being defined as a wife or being defined as so and so's, my parent's child, being defined as a student or defined as someone from this part of town, even being defined by in religious settings.
Bunmi Laditan:
And those times in life, especially when I was going through my divorce, just no, I'm me, I'm ready for my voice to be heard. I'm ready to say the things that I've been wanting to say that have been in my heart that I was afraid to say because I would lose the approval of this person or this person. And I just love where she says, "It's my time to be heard." And the way the song just builds and she sings stronger, and stronger and stronger. I just love that song so much. I love that song.
Amena Brown:
Bunmi, thank you for bringing that song up. Because I'm like, now you're making me like, I need to do a real listen on that song.
Bunmi Laditan:
Yes. Just asking people to listen, they're asking this person really to listen. I just love it.
Amena Brown:
I get that now. Not that I'm a Beyonce historian. Although if there's a job like that, let me know. But, even in thinking the things that... we don't know a lot about Beyonce's actual life, which I respect to but the things we know a little bit about that time in her life, I think that was around that time of Dream Girls, around the time that she was separating from her dad as a manager and starting to really carve her own path, which even at that time, I could not have imagined how broad and amazing her career was going to get.
Amena Brown:
But thinking about the subject matter of that song, and how much that song meant to her at that moment in her life, that's actually very inspiring to think about that we're all going to go through some times like that, where it's like, "Okay, I got to step out of whatever people are thinking I should be. I got to step out of that and let my full self be heard." And now thinking about all the work she created after that, it's beautiful to see artistically that. So that's really poignant.
Bunmi Laditan:
It's amazing because when she says, "I'm not at home in my own home." just talking about... because that's how I felt so often, especially growing up, I didn't feel at home a lot of the time. I couldn't relax in the way that I wanted to a lot of the time. And even in early marriage, I fell into this role. I am wife now and I lost myself in so many things. And just that song just emerging from all of these their comforts, yes, but they're also keeping you shackled, keeping you in this tight little box.
Bunmi Laditan:
And yes, it's a true thing of what she did after she was brave. And I didn't even realized that it came out at the time that she split with her dad as manager, but now it's even braver because after that she skyrocketed. And she'd already skyrocketed. But then she exploded in what she created and the visual, it's insane.
Bunmi Laditan:
If I have 100th of the bravery that she showed in her career. People need to understand, being an artist is scary. It's scary. So she is brave to do all the things she has done. She's brave. And if I have one 100th of her braveries, I can do stuff. I can do stuff that I want to do not just that people tell me I should do, but I really want to do.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. Beyonce, thank you. We know you're listening to the podcast. So thank you.
Bunmi Laditan:
Thank you for tuning in. Thank you.
Amena Brown:
We appreciate this so much. Anytime you want to come, you're welcome, Beyonce anytime. Even Blue Ivy, she would make a great guest too. So, okay. Tell me do you have right now because I'm sure this changes all the time. Do you right now have a favorite phrase that you love to say?
Bunmi Laditan:
I like to say "teamwork makes the dream work" to my kids. I know it's so annoying when I say it, but I can't stop. Because I always say in the context of like, "We need to clean the house together. We need to do this laundry. We'd fold it and put it away, or we need to all chip in, teamwork makes the dream work." And so I go, "Teamwork makes the dream work."
Amena Brown:
Yes, we love a call and response, Bunmi. We love to see that.
Bunmi Laditan:
I love it. But it really is true in life. You can't do a lot by yourself. And I have to... I've been a reckless in life. I keep to myself, I disappear for a while. And I've started to learn how you really do need to depend on people and lean on people and network with people not just for the purpose of networking, but to get to know people and know what makes them keep going and exchange ideas. So I'm trying to get better at that.
Amena Brown:
Teamwork makes the dream work, honey, I love that. What's your favorite way to spend time alone? If you have a few hours alone, what's the dream of things you would be doing?
Bunmi Laditan:
Well, first, I love being alone. It's my favorite [laughs] state of anything. This is a horrible thing to say during pandemic but if everyone did die tomorrow, I mean die because I don't want to look at a bunch of bodies. If everyone disappeared, I'd be okay. It would be a little bit freaky because I don't know how to work the electricity plants and the water purification plants. But I will figure it out. Because I do like quiet... that's weird. But what was even the question? I don't remember.
Amena Brown:
If you had a few hours alone, what are your favorite things to do when you're alone? How do you want to spend the time?
Bunmi Laditan:
I'm back on track. I just want to say I have ADHD and it's unmedicated. So that's why [laughs]
Amena Brown:
I'm tracking.
Bunmi Laditan:
I love to go on drives by myself and listen to music. I love it.
Amena Brown:
I love that. Oh, going on a drive. I love that.
Bunmi Laditan:
It's so fun.
Amena Brown:
It does feel like you're unto yourself but you're also watching the other cars go by. I have had some wonderful alone time on a road trip or something. I live in Atlanta. So in the before times, I would have to go back and forth to Nashville for business stuff. And it's about four or four and a half hour drive and you could fly but something about that four, four and a half hours. I get that. It's like all the podcasts and whatever album.
Bunmi Laditan:
Audiobooks.
Amena Brown:
I love them.
Bunmi Laditan:
I love audiobooks. I love them. They're just art sometimes, when you get a really good reader, someone's voice and they just know how to do that acting and they can do the male voice and female voice and little kid voices. Those are hard. Some people nail it. So just listening to audiobooks and driving music. Yeah, podcast, anything, just like feeling the world fly by and you're in your own little pod with your snacks. Maybe with your mocha, come on, like, come on. With your food.
Amena Brown:
Come on, as soon as you said snacks I was like, "Sign me up for that." Because that's the best part about a road trip is like, every time I take a road trip, I got to make a trip specifically for the snacks. I don't know, it's a cross between discovering I had some allergies to things in my 30s and maybe just becoming a bougie person but some of the snacks I need are not going to be at the gas station in random town that I'm driving by. "I need my organic popcorn, but I need the butter to maybe be vegan butter." There's a lot of things that are going on in my snack situation but I'm always like, "Let me go to Whole Foods and achieve these organic dark chocolate-covered almonds." Yes.
Bunmi Laditan:
Fancy. I miss Trader Joe's because I'm in Canada now. I miss Trader Joe's. Whole Foods is always... I didn't understand how they did their pricing. I felt like they were robbing me [crosstalk 00:30:01].
Amena Brown:
I think that might still be the case, actually. I think that's an accurate description.
Bunmi Laditan:
Because there were two times when I got to the register, and I wanted to put things back because I didn't have enough. This is like 10 years ago, and I'm like, "They did something." You know when you look at your receipt to see where they were wrong, and like there was nothing, it was all legitimate, and you just have to kind of sit with yourself.
Amena Brown:
This is still happening to me going to Whole Foods because now it's like, they have a little Prime members thing. If you're a member of Amazon Prime, you're supposed to scan that. And then there's certain things you're supposed to get a discount on. And one of the last times I went up in there, I don't think my husband was with me. I think I was alone because I made her check twice. And I normally wouldn't have done that if he was there because I would be like, "I want to embarrass you." You know what I mean? But I was alone. And I was like, "Did this scan?" She was like, "Yes, ma'am, is scanned." And I was like, "Well, why?" I was pointing to the receipt like why is it? And I tried scanning it again like, is it going to change? She was like, "No, this is just what it is." And I was like, "This ain't right."
Bunmi Laditan:
I need this to change.
Amena Brown:
Please. What are you going to do about it? This isn't right, what are you planning to do about it? But I do feel like Trader Joe's and honorable mention for Sprouts, I feel like those two places are a snack haven situation and they have very... I feel like you can go to Whole Foods and there's just general brands or whatever that are there. But I feel like with Trader Joe's there are particular cookies and particular chips, popcorn, things that you can only get when you go to Trader Joe's. Am I right about that?
Bunmi Laditan:
You're right. It's been 10 years for me and I still think about Trader Joe's at least three times a week because they will have unique things. They're always trying to delight people. I'm here sounding like a commercial. I need to have access to the store.
Amena Brown:
Trader Joe's executives, we know you're listening. So Bunmi's book is coming out but she's also available. She's also available for sponsorship. So Trader Joe's executives we're paging you to aisle five, please get in touch with Bunmi.
Bunmi Laditan:
Yes, I'll come. I'll visit.
Amena Brown:
I love that. Yes. Okay.
Bunmi Laditan:
[crosstalk 00:32:23] one of their Hawaiian t-shirts and everything. I love Trader Joe's. Just send me snacks, pay me in snacks. That's all I want. Pay me on all of your new releases.
Amena Brown:
I am accepting of this. Even you saying pay me in snacks, I know we're just really meeting each other like "in real life" because we're here on the recording, but I'm just going to step out there and have a vulnerable moment and tell you that I wouldn't mind if someone could pay me in hoagies. I'm a sandwich lover and I'm out here in these streets like, if the city of Philadelphia, in particular, wanted to pay me in hoagies for something, it's acceptable. There's really not a lot of other things that I would be like, "I don't want to be paid in beer or pay me in bottles of wine." Who cares? Pay me in hoagies and we can work out something.
Bunmi Laditan:
I understand because I would be... Will it to be paid in burritos, Carne asada specifically with salsa verde? I have to have salsa verde on the side, not the red salsa.
Amena Brown:
Okay.
Bunmi Laditan:
I could be paid in that, no problem.
Amena Brown:
It's important to know one's requirements for things because there are actually very few moments that I would be like instead of money this, but there are a few food items that I'd be like, if I'm at the negotiating table, and they're like, "Turns out we don't have money, but we have." I feel like there's a few foods right there that'd be like, "Slap me the contract."
Bunmi Laditan:
Yeah, let's do it. You did your research, and I'm here to say let's do it.
Amena Brown:
I feel like I'm Monique GIF. I would like to see it.
Bunmi Laditan:
I would like to see it.
Amena Brown:
[inaudible 00:34:10] Oh, they have cheesesteaks? I would like to see it. I would like to see the contract for that, please. Okay, tell me about this. What's your favorite trash TV to watch?
Bunmi Laditan:
Oh, my gosh. My favorite trashed. Well, I'm one of those people who I don't watch a lot of TV because I don't have channels here. They do exist in Canada, but I don't have large channels but in terms of what I do watch to zone out, it's YouTube. And it's so dumb. This qualifies as trash TV because I like to watch, it's very specific, Korean cafe owners prepare drinks.
Amena Brown:
Yes.
Bunmi Laditan:
It is a problem. Sometimes it doesn't make any sense. I'm probably never going to go to Korea. I don't even go to cafes that much because I don't like my shirt looks... I don't like the color, it looks better I tried it by accident once. But I love to see them. So you'll have this Korean young lady, all she does is prepare drinks and prepare cake and cupcake. And I can watch that for hours.
Amena Brown:
Wow.
Bunmi Laditan:
Yeah. And the captions are in broken English. That just makes it better for me. So she repairs all kinds of drinks, it's called Bless Roll. She prepares all kinds of drinks. Like, oh my gosh, like kiwi, kiwi smoothies. She makes with ice cream drink. She makes Americanos. And I'm just sitting there just watching transfixed. I could watch that for three to four hours.
Amena Brown:
Wow. This is a whole corner of YouTube that I-
Bunmi Laditan:
It's a corner.
Amena Brown:
... know nothing about. I'm like-
Bunmi Laditan:
Lost.
Amena Brown:
... people are making videos of that process. And I could see how it would be interesting to watch because you feel like you're a little involved in this stranger's day. you're getting a little peek into their process.
Bunmi Laditan:
Yes. I feel like I own a café, kind of. Do I not?
Amena Brown:
Obviously.
Bunmi Laditan:
I feel like, after all these hours, we own a cafe, me and her. We both own a cafe. I feel, honestly, I could own a cafe at this point because I've watched so many hours. I know how to do it. I know where the ice goes on the cup. I know how to pour the Americano after you put in the water. So I feel that I could do this, that we can make this work for me if you ever would like a partner to do this.
Bunmi Laditan:
I love the part where she cuts the different cakes. There's a rainbow cake. It's just all the names, Oreo cake. There's vanilla cake. I make the kids watch it too, and they're just like, "Why are we doing this?" On a Saturday.
Amena Brown:
Okay. And because you already have a strong press release with the kids. I love how you can just go ahead and begin with like, do you like having a home? You can just start right there. That beginning line... As a writer, I'm into the opening line and that opening lines, do you like having a home? I feel like your kids will get used to that. And then after a while, you just say that. You don't even make it to the rest of the press conference. And they're just like, "We're going to finish watching this lady cut up this cake because apparently-"
Bunmi Laditan:
Yes. We do that on Saturday. Because we were just watching some videos and I said, "Oh, I have an idea for a video," because the kids want to watch try not to laugh challenge and all these videos. And Generation Z humor is weird. I don't understand. I don't even laugh at the same things they laugh at. They just see like a cartoon frog going across the screen saying, "Ye" and they laugh. I don't understand it.
Bunmi Laditan:
So I said, Oh, I have an idea. Let's watch this cafe." And then it was like, "Why are we doing this?" But I'm like, "Look at her. Look how she's putting the sprinkles on the ice cream. That's cool, right?" She's like, "No." But I love it. I love it.
Amena Brown:
You all, I'm going to have to see if Bunmi will send us a link to one of her favorites so that we can include it in the show notes because I'm super curious. And I'm also a person who sometimes has trouble sleeping because my brain is an administrator a little bit. So I'll wake up sometimes like 3:00 am or 4:00 am because my brain's like, "Let's think about some things we forgot to do today. Let's wake up at 4:00 am and let's think about that. Remember the conversation you had and you were feeling awkward afterwards? Let's take this time to overthink about why that was awkward."
Amena Brown:
So sometimes I need something methodical almost to just watch to get my brain to stop looping about whatever that is. And this sounds like the perfect thing because it's not traumatic or a lot of drama. You're just like, "Here's a woman there in the café, she's cutting up the different cakes. We love to see this task. What? Completed. Wow."
Bunmi Laditan:
Making a pomegranate latte and putting it in the to-go box for Uber courier. It's amazing.
Amena Brown:
How did you even know I needed this, Bunmi? You brought it up. I need this now. I need this.
Bunmi Laditan:
I know. Yes. It's the best for 4:00 a.m. It's so relaxing. You can even keep the sound off. I don't even have the sound on half the time. I'll have rain sounds or something going on. And just watching this cafe. And she'll describe which cake is her favorite. They're still eating Christmas cake for whatever reason. Maybe that's part of the culture. But it's like Christmas cake decorating with reindeer.
Amena Brown:
Wow. You all, if you all don't go to YouTube and check this out, I'm going to make it my business to find out about this, Bunmi. Okay, let me ask you about this. What is your favorite spiritual practice? And I preface this by saying, I feel like there's so much I love about the ways you write about your journey and spirituality, and the honesty with which you write, which I think is very central to your book.
Amena Brown:
And I think if you had said the phrase spiritual practice to me, seven years ago, I would have been like, "No, we rebuke that. That's not a thing. No, we're rebuking that. That's not a thing that we're doing now." But I feel like in my journey, and for me having the context of being in Christian faith, I feel like my Christian faith has been stretched in a lot of ways.
Bunmi Laditan:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
It's been broadened way beyond even what I believed as a child, what I believed when I first entered adulthood even, and thinking about there are these different ways to have spiritual practice that may not have to be so regimented, or I don't know, I'm still processing a lot of that. So I was curious to hear your thoughts about that. Do you have a favorite spiritual practice that really grounds you?
Bunmi Laditan:
Yeah. I know exactly what you mean by seven years ago, you would have said, No, because three years ago, four years ago, I would have said the same thing. I would have imagined someone saying, "Oh, this is..." And there's nothing wrong with devotionals at all. I have some devotionals. But I would have imagined somebody with their devotional notebook doing their perfect thing. And to me, it would have sounded so boring and constrained. But they're not. I am not saying that they are, I'm just saying how I would have reacted to it.
Bunmi Laditan:
But my favorite spiritual practice, it's going to sound strange, but I think it's making myself a cup of tea right now. Because I've been so hard on myself most of my life. Most people, you can think the worst of yourself and think, "Oh, I messed up on this." You look at your worst moments, highlight reel, and I do that and then being a mom is giving. And if you're not careful, you'll just give to the bone marrow and just collapse.
Bunmi Laditan:
So I love drinking tea. And I have a lot of different teas. I'm not fancy about tea. I like Celestial Seasonings, but like store-brand. I don't care what kind of tea it is, it doesn't have a strong taste anyway, it's just tea. It doesn't cost a lot. And so I like fixing myself a cup of tea with honey. I do this multiple times a day. And just like holding it. And to me, drinking tea is a weight that, not that I prove I have value to myself. But yes, that I matter in this home too.
Bunmi Laditan:
And I'm doing something kind, something that I love, something that feels like a hug for me. And not just, it helps ground me, it helps me feel human. And so many things can take you out of that feeling human, just like a lot of the time we're doing things, we got to do things. But tea is really something or maybe for some people is coffee, just makes me stop. And just exhale. And so that I think is my favorite.
Bunmi Laditan:
And I also like praying in bed at night, just praying. When I say praying, I don't know what people imagine. But for me, I just talk to God about, "So thanks for just getting me through this day. And there's another one coming tomorrow. But I know you'll see me through it. So almost as if I have a friend sitting on the edge of my bed, who's been waiting for me than just who is there. So I can just unload everything. So those are my two favorite spiritual practices.
Amena Brown:
I love that, Bunmi. And I think this is also a good place for me to ask you to tell my listeners more about your book, because I think this is a great segue because your book is full of very honest prayers.
Bunmi Laditan:
Thank you.
Amena Brown:
And you can tell me if this is true about your book, I'll tell you the vibes that I was getting. I feel like people who may feel like they're on the fringes of faith sometimes, who they may read other things and feel like, "That's not me, that doesn't fit me, that's not my thing." I feel like they may find themselves in the way that you've written this book because it is written in this very open-handed way for people.
Amena Brown:
So if somebody is listening, and they're not too sure maybe how they feel about prayer or about what that could look like, what would you say to them about what your book is like, or the inspiration behind writing it?
Bunmi Laditan:
Oh, thank you for saying all of that. I feel like I wrote this book as I was living it and as I was because I just recently I would say I started praying and talking to God and then came to faith in Jesus. That's all really recent for me. Past two, three years, it's been a journey because even when I believe something, I can believe it, but then I have to feel it too.
Amena Brown:
True.
Bunmi Laditan:
And I can wrap my whole self around it. And so, I wrote this book as I was learning to trust God. I wrote this book as I was learning to trust in His goodness because that's a whole another thing.
Amena Brown:
Sure.
Bunmi Laditan:
Depending on what you've been through in life, and maybe even the religious people or churches or whatever you've been to, you can have pain in what it means even believe in God. So I was learning to pray, I was learning to talk to him, and to trust him, to trust that he wants good things for me, and for anyone. And as I was doing this, I felt him teaching me too, and teaching me so gently, which is the only way I think you can really teach, just teaching me so gently.
Bunmi Laditan:
And really, I think the most important part was that he was revealing himself as a father to me, a loving father because it's one thing to think of a God who's in charge and has power. But why would we really want to communicate with this all-powerful being? He's powerful. Maybe we communicate to get stuff. But him as a loving father, this loving deity who cares about his children, I wanted to talk to, because it comforted me, he comforted me, he comforts me, and he loves me.
Bunmi Laditan:
And so it goes from... that took it from this religion to this really real relationship. So I wrote it from the person at the beginning of a relationship who's not even sure that they're safe but knows that they want to be there.
Amena Brown:
That's powerful, Bunmi. That's powerful.
Bunmi Laditan:
Oh, thank you.
Amena Brown:
And I think other things that Bunmi and I can talk about on our next episode. And especially when I'm on this podcast, people who've been listening a while know that I grew up Christian, I'm still Christian, even as the bounds of that are different for me now. But I love to talk about spirituality on this podcast because I think whether people find that in a particular religion, or whatever their journey is there, we're all yearning for something that feeds our soul. That reminds us that we're human, that we're here, that it's important that we're here.
Amena Brown:
And as a person who is a Christian, I love for there to be things that are available to people who may not feel like they're the most devout anything, they may not feel like they're the one that has all the theology information. They just may be curious. Or they may be in a place where they have questions, and they want to be able to know what they do with those questions or whatever. And so I think it's great that you're writing things that are creating that space for people.
Amena Brown:
So Bunmi, I could just talk to you about 1,000 things, you all understand. But we're going now, but it doesn't mean there wasn't another two hours of things that we could have talked about, okay? Because-
Bunmi Laditan:
I know. This flew by. Because I could talk to you about so many things for a long time, you're fun to talk to.
Amena Brown:
So we're going to do that offline. You all can't be a part of it. But Bunmi and I will talk in a off-the-record and say the words that we couldn't say on here, But Bunmi, thank you so much for joining me in the HER living room.
Bunmi Laditan:
Thank you.
Amena Brown:
You all, I hope you enjoyed getting to hear from Bunmi. And if you don't have it already, make sure you go to your favorite bookseller and get a copy of Dear God: Honest Prayers to a God Who Listens. Make sure you do that. Thanks, Bunmi for joining me.
Amena Brown:
I hope you all got as much joy from my conversation with Bunmi as I did. You can follow Bunmi on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at HonestToddler and you can check out her website that's bunmiladitan.com. That's B-U-N-M-I L-A-D-I-T-A-N bunmiladitan.com. Make sure you grab a copy of her latest book, Dear God: Honest Prayers to a God Who Listens from your favorite bookseller. Do it now, do it today, get a bunch of copies.
Amena Brown:
For this week's edition of Give Her a Crown, I want to shout out Dr. Renita Weems. Dr. Weems is a biblical scholar, academic administrator, writer, ordained minister, and a public intellectual whose scholarly insights center modern faith, biblical texts, and the role of spirituality in our everyday lives.
Amena Brown:
I made a decision last year that for a while I would focus my reading on Christian spirituality and texts written by black women only. And this journey led me to Dr. Weems' book Listening For God: A Ministers Journey Through Silence And Doubt. Her book arrived to me right on time as I was shuffling through my own doubts and questions.
Amena Brown:
And I wanted to read to you all one of my favorite quotes from the book. "If God was going to speak to me, "God would just have to do it amidst the clutter of family, the noise of pots and pans, the din of a hungry toddler screaming from the backseat during rush hour traffic, and the hassles of the workplace. Women have for centuries been made to feel guilty. Because in our ongoing struggle to balance solitude and intimacy, we found ourselves often for reasons not always of our doing, having to give up the former for the sake of the latter.
Amena Brown:
While I agree completely with those who argue that solitude and quiet are necessary conditions for replenishing the soul and the psyche, and that prayer thrives on stillness before God, the greatest challenge for me as a minister and a mother, was to stop always blaming myself and feeling guilty. The lesson was learning how to hear God in different ways, and in different places, which in my case, meant in the noisiness of my life, and in the seasons of divine silence when God seemed withdrawn, and distant."
Amena Brown:
You all, to all of you listening, whether you have a spiritual practice, or religion, or religious background, or if you do not ascribe to any particular religion or spiritual practice, I just want you to know that this podcast, our HER living room, is a welcome and worn couch. It's a wide table, where we can bring our doubts, our prayers, our laughter, our questions, our cuss words, our breath, and be present in the silence or the noise of wherever we are. I hope you can take a deep breath today and feel your lungs filled with gratitude, the same way that mine do whenever I'm here speaking to you.
Amena Brown:
Thank you, Dr. Renita Weems, for inviting us to consider our spirituality differently, for inviting us not to a life of guilt and shame, but to a life of freedom, of questions, of doubts, as we explore our own spirituality. Dr. Renita Weems, give her a crown.
Amena Brown:
HER with Amena Brown is produced by Matt Owen for Sol Graffiti Productions, as a part of the Seneca Women Podcast Network, in partnership with iHeartRadio. Thanks for listening, and don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast.