Amena Brown:
Y'all, welcome back to HER with Amena Brown. And I know every time I be in here doing an episode, I tell y'all, I'm excited, but today. Today, really, really excited, so we want to welcome to the HER living room, New York Times' best selling author, USA today, best selling author, Wall Street Journal best selling author, Talia Hibbert. Please applaud in your living rooms. Please applaud, please applaud. Talia, thank you so much for joining the podcast today. I'm so happy to have you here.
Talia Hibbert:
Thank you for having me. I'm super excited.
Amena Brown:
Y'all, what y'all don't know is Talia is so patient, bless her kind heart today because there were a few things that I was trying to figure out how to do over here without my producer here. And I basically took Talia through some sort of customer service, tech support situation. She didn't ask for that when she came in here, she didn't ask for that type of thing. So, thank you Talia for your patience on that. Okay, first of all, Talia, let me start with this. I am new to the romance genre. I'm only a year into being a romance reader.
Talia Hibbert:
Aww, a romance baby.
Amena Brown:
Okay, and I want to give a special shout out to my assistant and my friend, Leigh, who reached out to you for this interview and who is really my gateway into this literature, okay? And I went through a particular time and sometimes when I'm talking to Women of Color on here, Talia, I have to remind myself that like we're recording and this is a public thing, because I almost went into like a girlfriend mode and was like, "Girl," and I was like, "You can't be talking about all that on this recording." So, we'll talk about that, the other underlying things at a different time, Talia. But once the summer came in, I had like other things in my personal life that were very hard. And on top of being in a pandemic, on top of being in the middle of a global uprising, I just had to do like moratorium on reading things and watching things that are in any way, super sad or traumatic right now. And it's not that those stories don't have their place or are not important. I just can't be engaging in that right now.
Amena Brown:
I can't do that. And so Leigh and I were talking about this and she was like, "Well, you want to start like reading some romance books." And so she gave me like list of authors, you were one of them. And over the past year, Talia, I just been all up in your ... What? Is it a bibliography? No, what is it called?
Talia Hibbert:
A back list? Is that what we're saying?
Amena Brown:
Okay, yes, because I was like, what's the author version of a discography? And I'm like, "It feels like it should be bibliography," but then we use that in research. So ...
Talia Hibbert:
I see where you're coming from though. It feels like that, that should be it.
Amena Brown:
Well, I've been all up through your things you've been writing, is basically what I'm trying to say. I've been all up through your things, Talia, and just enjoying the perfect imperfections of your characters. And I just love everything about it. So, I'm just so happy to have you here and for the people that are not already reading you, I hope they are encouraged to do this.
Talia Hibbert:
Thank you, really, thank you so much. That is very lovely.
Amena Brown:
I also have to tell you, Talia, you don't be knowing me girl, but I be following you on Twitter, and when you hit the New York times bestseller list, like I felt such a Black girl joy for you from afar, seeing you and your agent ... I mean are you still processing that moment? That had to feel like such a big moment, right?
Talia Hibbert:
Yeah, that really freaked me out, and it was very unexpected. And when people bring it up, I never bring it up because I'm like, "Did that happen? Or ..." When people bring it up, I'm like, "Who, me? Are you sure?"
Amena Brown:
Completely, especially, I think for a lot of us who are writers, there's a lot of joy that can come in general in your writing career, just people enjoying your work or seeing other readers come into your community space that way. I mean, that has its own joy and just making you feel like the hard work you do to write is worth it, but it ain't nothing wrong with having this type of moment either, where you're able to be like, "Yo, this is like a really respected list to make it on." And to see you make it to that, I was like, "I don't even know her, and I'm just here, and my Black girl joy's so happy for you."
Talia Hibbert:
Aww, Thank you. Yeah, it was fabulous. Actually, I use it around the house a lot whenever me and my boyfriend disagree on anything. I'm like, "Well, I am a New York Times best selling author, so maybe you should listen to what I have to say."
Amena Brown:
It's perfect leverage. I support this. Here's the thing I wanted to ask you. So, when I was in college, I was an English major. I actually thought that I was going to be a novelist because I loved Toni Morrison and Alice Walker's work in particular, so much growing up, that that was my purpose for majoring in English. It turned out for me that I ended up having more of a career in poetry than fiction writing. And so, that's sort of what took off from me. But there was one class that I was in for my English major, where we watched a documentary about Alice Walker. And she talked about her characters talking to her. Someone asked her, "How do you write these books?" And she said, "I really don't feel like I write them, I feel like the characters show up and they talk to me. They tell me what their story is." And I'm going to tell you right now, Talia, that I grew up in a strict in some regards, religious background.
Amena Brown:
So, when I first heard Alice Walker say that, I was like, "Oh, we rebuke that. That's not ... No, the characters ... mm-mm (negative). They not talk ... No, if you're not alive, you're not a human being, you're not talking, and I don't care." But then years later as a writer, I totally experienced that being true. Is that a true experience for you? Do you have moments or times where your characters have talked to you and told you how the plot was supposed to move forward?
Talia Hibbert:
I don't have characters talk to me directly, but I very much see them talking to each other or living out certain things. I see the things that I suppose you could say, they want me to see, or they want to show me, but when I am imagining things or when I'm in my head, it's like I, as the individual, don't really exist. I'm a TV screen or something.
Amena Brown:
Oh, I love that. And I could see almost in fiction writing, there can be this feeling that you're eavesdropping sort of on-
Talia Hibbert:
Yeah.
Amena Brown:
Other people's lives in this way, because I think sometimes people that don't write fiction, and I have not finished fiction, I've just dabbled in writing it, but for people that read fiction, that don't write fiction, I think there's sometimes this perception that you are, "The God" over what the people are doing in the story. And you don't always, as a writer, have control over how the story is going to end up, right? Are there times that you were like, "Here's this character, I bet they'll do this." And then you get to that moment and the character is doing a different thing than you expected? Does that ever happen?
Talia Hibbert:
All the time. A lot of the time, I have like a vague plan for key moments in the book. And then I'm trying to write the moment and I'm like this isn't working because they have somehow gone in a completely different direction. And I have to sit back and think about where they actually are and not where I wanted or planned for them to be, because the two paths diverged. That's very inconvenient.
Amena Brown:
Okay, super inconvenient, guys.Well, this is a HER Favorite Things episode, Talia. And I wanted to get a chance to talk to you about some of your favorite things. What's your favorite thing about writing romance?
Talia Hibbert:
My favorite thing about writing romance, gosh, there's so many. Overall, I would say it's just being able to write to people experiencing so many positive things and finding so much happiness in so many different ways. I love that in romance, the journeys, you know that you're always going to leave them better than you found them.
Amena Brown:
Oh, I love that. Also, can you share with us, Talia, what is your favorite cuss word or curse word? It depends on where people are from if they curse or they cuss, but either way, what's your favorite?
Talia Hibbert:
Well, here we say swear word, which has a lot less impact.
Amena Brown:
Oh, okay Your favorite swear word? Yes.
Talia Hibbert:
Actually, at home I absolutely wasn't allowed to swear ever, and I still don't in front of anyone from my family because I'd be in big trouble, but privately, my favorite would have to be bastard because I think it sounds really nice.
Amena Brown:
Oh yes. That's a good one. That's a good one. It's like when I see people in movies string it together, sometimes they string it together with other swear words, and I'm just like, "Oh yes, yes, we love to see that." And the end of it was bastard, yes. It's so great. See, my mama listens to this podcast, so I'm just gone whisper and be like, "Mom, just fast forward the next 30 seconds." Okay, but my favorite cuss word right now is shit.
Talia Hibbert:
Oh, it's snappy.
Amena Brown:
It's a nice exclamation if something happens, if you stub your toe, it's a great word. If you think someone is a liar, you can be like, "You're full of shit."
Talia Hibbert:
I don't know if you guys say this, here you can call someone a shit, or a little shit, do you do that? You're such a shit.
Amena Brown:
Oh, I like that one too. I'm going to incorporate that. Continue to fast-forward, Mom, continue to press the 30 seconds until you get to the next favorite thing, thank you so much, Mom. Thank you. Also, I want to ask you about your favorite celebrity crush. I really have two questions I want, I want to ask about this. So, let me start with a celebrity crush and then I have a second question. Who is your favorite celebrity crush? It could be right now, Talia, or if you have someone in the past that you're like, "That was my person when I was blah-blah-blah years old." Discuss.
Talia Hibbert:
Okay. So, right now my eternal celebrity crush is Rihanna. I would pay money to smell her. I heard she smells really good and I believe it. But then when I was younger, my celebrity crush was Lucy Lawless from Xena: Warrior Princess.
Amena Brown:
Oh, that's nice. Okay, this is the second question. The answer could still be the same regarding celebrity crush, but my friends and I used to have conversations about whether or not we were in a relationship, what celebrities were on our, "You could get it," list, okay? And let me tell you what qualifies for me as a, "You can get it." This is how I imagine it, Talia, that like I happen to be in a very nice hotel at the bar, and so-and-so sits next to me. So-and-so celebrity, and they have their hotel key under their hand, and they slide at my direction. Who are the people in the fantasy world of life? Who are the people that like sliding that key over, you would be like, "I will take that key and meet you upstairs?" Or it could be some people that you're like, "I'm at least thinking about that. Even if I'm like, 'No, not me,' but I'm going to think about it." Is the answer is still the same or are there other names you would put there?
Talia Hibbert:
I feel like a lot of the people who I have crushes on, if I actually met them, because I'm very awkward, I would be so intimidated. They could slide the key all day long, I'd be like, "What? What are you doing? What's happening?" And then I'd just be like ... I'd say something terribly awkward, and they'd be like, "Actually, I'm taking back my key." I'd be like, "Oh, do you want to play chess?" And they'd be like, "I'm leaving."
Amena Brown:
Maybe playing chess is a different version of, "You could get it," but okay. All right. I think for me, it was always André 3000.
Talia Hibbert:
Ooh, okay.
Amena Brown:
For some reason, I imagine myself in some sort of really nice Bohemian style hotel. And if André 3000, I mean, of course now we know that he's like going around the country, playing flute, different places.
Talia Hibbert:
So, it could happen.
Amena Brown:
And if he was there with his flute and he slides that hotel key? I feel my husband would understand on a level, I feel like he'd be like, "I mean ..."
Talia Hibbert:
Absolutely, you'd have to, right? Any reasonable person-
Amena Brown:
It's André 3000. What can I say? That's how I feel. I feel like there's some names we had to discuss, if this ever comes up, just know this is a thing. Idris Elba, okay? Idris Elba literally on that list as well. I mean ...
Talia Hibbert:
I'm off and on because sometimes when he doesn't have a bed or he has a shorter bed, he reminds me very much of my dad. So, it's a real shame.
Amena Brown:
That definitely ruins the vibes. That ruins the vibes because it's like, "I don't want to think about nobody's parents in this situation." And then sometimes, Talia, I get to where I'm like, even though it's totally in my fantasy world, when Idris Elba got married, I was like, "Man, I guess out of respect for his ... This whole thing is not really going to happen, but for some reason now," I'm like, "Man, I do follow her on Instagram, so ..." That doesn't mean anything. Okay, talk to me about what is a song, or if there are a few songs, songs that you put on that really get you motivated? If a song could be like a cup of coffee, if you're having like that groggy day, what are the songs you would put on to play?
Talia Hibbert:
So, one song that really gets me going, because it hypes up my mood, is Smooth by Santana because it's the kind of song that whatever mood I'm in, it makes me dance around but then when I'm done, I'm like, "You know what? Yeah, this day is fine, actually. It's not that bad. So, let me sit down and do some work."
Amena Brown:
I love it. I love it. I feel like Santana is always good for a thing like that. It just gets you in the good vibes, you know? That's a good one.
Talia Hibbert:
Yeah, immaculate vibes.
Amena Brown:
I've started a playlist privately and quietly, Talia. I am honing very good skills at making a playlist. This is a little thing I work on, on the side of just trying to be a good curator of the playlist. So, currently I'm working on a playlist called "Get On Up," which is supposed to be my, "Okay, let's play this music. The day's started." I think I have some Curtis Mayfield on there. I do have a couple of Outkast songs. There's a couple of those songs that I'm like, "Okay, this makes me be like, 'Here's my day that ...'" Jill Scott, Golden, when she comes in with the vocals and I'm like, "Yes, I'm going to wear my freedom too, around my chest." Yes, so I'm going to have to investigate this Santana song so, I can add more things-
Talia Hibbert:
Add it, maybe?
Amena Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). What is one thing that you need when you write? I'm always curious to ask about this, Talia, because sometimes I guess this changes for me. So far, Talia, both of the books I've written were non-fiction. And so, I have never written a fiction book to know how the writing process might be different, but I know that I always am in need of like a dessert or a carb, something, because that brings comfort to me as I face my insecurities. That's what writing's like for me. But what are some things that are like, these are your favorite things to have when you are in the writing process?
Talia Hibbert:
So, for me, I used to play the Sims a lot when I was younger, and I feel like I'm a Sim in that all my need bars have to be green for me to properly do anything. So, I have to drink my water. I need to have had my breakfast, and I go to the loo. I need to be in a warm room, not too warm. I need peace. It doesn't have to be completely quiet, but it does have to be peaceful. And then I'm ready, and I can get it done.
Amena Brown:
Oh, I love that. I've also gotten into a candle sometimes, something about the vibes of lighting a candle sets that mood with me of like, here I am a writer.
Talia Hibbert:
Actually, I tried to do the candle thing, and then I was banned from using candles in my office because, through no fault of my own, the candle exploded. It was like one of those glass jar things, and it exploded, it as a very dramatic word, but it low-ley did explode. And everyone blamed me, and now I can't use candles without supervision.
Amena Brown:
I mean, this is making me be very thoughtful now because my husband literally has a candle, like one of those ... It's a big glass, in the big glass jar set up. And he lit it recently, and we were all ... Actually, my mom was over too. We were all here, sort of as a co-workers for the day. And the smoke detectors started going off and we're all like, "What's going on?" And he opens the door to his office, and that candle, that was never smoking at all before, it's like burned half way down, but now at whatever level it's at, it just smokes every time.
Talia Hibbert:
Oh my god.
Amena Brown:
So, he had to do all the waves underneath the smoke detector and puts the candle out. So, maybe you're saving us from allowing that candle to further explode.
Talia Hibbert:
Maybe, maybe.
Amena Brown:
This is a good warning. So, I'm going to try to stick to that. What is your favorite thing about being you?
Talia Hibbert:
I recently learned that not everyone has an audible, internal monologue, but I have a constant monologue and I like it. It's very comforting.
Amena Brown:
Oh, that's nice. Can you share with us any examples of what your inner monologue is discussing?
Talia Hibbert:
Say, when I get up in the morning and I kind of lie there and I'm thinking, "What am I going to do today? I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this." And then I get up and I'm thinking, "Okay, now I'm doing this. That looks good. I need to get toilet paper." It's just rambling.
Amena Brown:
It seems that your inner monologue is very giving and about some sufficiencies and productivity. I think that's a nice inner monologue to have. I like it.
Talia Hibbert:
It's fun, it's helpful.
Amena Brown:
I think that's a great thing to love about yourself. That's one of my favorite questions to get to ask in these interviews because there's so many things about ourselves that we could think of, that we want to change or whatever. But I think it's really wonderful to think about what's our favorite thing about being exactly who we are. I have commented recently to a couple of friends, Talia, that I have an inner customer service Amena. And this is partly due to before I was a performance poet and doing spoken word and all this, I worked a lot of customer service jobs. Some of it was on the phone. Some of it was in-person, but all of the tools that you learn doing customer service, about how to like deescalate a customer if they're really angry when they get on the phone with you, how not to say no to them? You don't say the literal word, no, even if you actually are telling them, no, you can't do this thing.
Amena Brown:
So, I didn't know that all those skills, all that time working on the phones, doing all, that was totally going to become a part of my inner voice, basically. So, I've been in some situations, Talia, especially in my work, where I've had to meet with people who ... I mean, I'm interviewing people all the time that I might really be fans of theirs. And somehow, it's like customer service Amena gets in there, and she's so composed. She handles herself so well.
Talia Hibbert:
That's so useful.
Amena Brown:
I think other Amena has fainted or something during those times.
Talia Hibbert:
She's left the chat.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. She's not available for the conversation. Customer service Amena, however, would like to speak to these things, would like to say these words. So, that is a good favorite thing to have about yourself, that you treasure your inner monologue. I love that so very much. Before I let you go, Talia, I want to talk a little bit more about your work in particular for people that may be listening, and bless your hearts if you're late to the Talia Hibbert train, but this is your time. This is a train stop right here, where you can get on this train, if you're late to it. I want to talk about, there's a lot of things that I love and having read your work Talia, I had never read a book that had a content warning until reading your work. Can you share what made you add that as a thing to your work?
Talia Hibbert:
Well, I have always read a lot of fan fiction, and it's really common in fan fic to have just a content note for all the ... Because in fan fic, you can get a little messy, messy content. So, it's really common, just as a courtesy to have that noted for anyone who needs to be aware. And I always found it really helpful and it just made so much sense to me. So, when it occurred to me that I could do it, and I saw some authors like Cole McCade, for example, does a great job of content warnings as well. I was like, "Yeah, I want to do that. I don't want to spring this on someone, if it is something that can bother them, that could ruin their day or their week or the book." It just seems nice.
Amena Brown:
It was very helpful to me. And I was like, "Why doesn't everyone do this?" Everyone, every genre, everything, because it is very challenging if particularly I think, if you're engaging in something because you want it to bring you some sense of joy or some sense of a happy ending or this happy experience and there's this ... In the middle of it for you, that maybe the writer is not going to have any way of knowing that this thing they've mentioned about grief or about a particular kind of violence or whatever the things are that come up, the writer's not going to have any way of knowing what would trigger anyone. But being able to have that warning, as a reader, is nice to be like, because there's some content warnings that I'm like, "All right, I can handle that, okay."
Talia Hibbert:
Yeah, exactly.
Amena Brown:
You know? And then sometimes you're like, "Not me."
Talia Hibbert:
Not today, maybe not ever. So sorry.
Amena Brown:
Can't do that, you know? So, just giving readers the choice, I thought that was so powerful and empowering in your work. For people who may just be encountering your work for the first time, what do you hope that they walk away from these characters, these stories, what do you hope they walk away with?
Talia Hibbert:
I hope they walk away with the knowledge that everyone deserves to be happy and everyone deserves to experience the mushy, perfect love, whatever kind of love you want, that maybe people write off as impossible or cliche or shallow. It's not bad to want good things for yourself. I hope that's what readers walk away with.
Amena Brown:
It's not bad to want good things for yourself. I think that's a perfect way to end our conversation, Talia. thank you so much for joining me, for taking the tour of my house that we didn't have planned at the beginning of this.
Talia Hibbert:
It was a delightful tour.
Amena Brown:
I thank you for doing that. And I just thank you for the work that you put out into the world and for the way that there are just certain ways your work is centered on the experiences of Black women, and writing these stories where Black women are experiencing joy, it's wonderful. So, thank you, Talia.
Talia Hibbert:
Well, thank you so much for all your kind words, and for a lovely chat.
Amena Brown:
If you're looking for a refreshing fun read, check out Talia Hibbert's latest book, the New York Times best selling, Act Your Age, Eve Brown available at your favorite bookseller. For more info on Talia, check out her website, TaliaHibbert.com and follow her on Instagram and Twitter at Talia Hibbert.
Amena Brown:
For this week's edition of Give Her A Crown, I want to shout out Gabby Rivera. Gabby is a Queer Puerto Rican writer, and it's the first Latina to write for Marvel Comics, penning the solo series, AMERICA about America Chavez, a portal punching, Queer, Latina, powerhouse. She is also the author of the critically acclaimed novel, Juliet Takes a Breath, the writer and creator of b.b. free, a comic series with BOOM! Studios, and the host of podcast Joy Revolution. I first saw Gabby speak at MAKERS in 2020, in the before times y'all, before the pandemic, we were all there, super close to each other, breathing each other's air. It was very wild.
Amena Brown:
Gabby shared how her experiences as a spoken word poet helped to pave the way for the career she has today, and I was riveted, and also just so inspired. Having had roots in the spoken word community, myself, it was just amazing to see all of the things that Gabby is doing. Not only in her creative work, but in her community. Gabby, thank you for uplifting the voices of Queer folks, for being a bad-ass, for pouring your community and your culture into your characters. Gabby Rivera, give her a crown.
Amena Brown:
HER with Amena Brown is produced by Matt Owen for Sol Graffiti Productions, as a part of the Seneca Women Podcast Network, in partnership with iHeartRadio. Thanks for listening, and don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast.