Amena Brown:
Hey, everybody. Welcome to back to another episode of HER with Amena Brown. And this week is a Behind the Poetry episode. And if you are used to listening to the podcast, if you are a part of our HER living room on a weekly basis, you know that normally I don't have guests for my Behind the Poetry episodes. But today I have a very special guest, without whom I wouldn't be her. My mom is here.
Amena Brown:
So today I'm taking y'all Behind the Poetry of my poem God Bless Mom, which obviously was inspired by my mom. I thought it would be fun if she came into the HER living room. How you doing, mom?
Jeanne Brown:
I'm doing good. Yeah. Into the HER living room. I am excited to be here. I've been waiting for this moment. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for that lovely intro. I love it. Love it. Love it. Love it.
Amena Brown:
And, y'all, the day of this recording, even though you will be hearing this weeks afterwards, but the day of this recording is actually my mom's birthday. She agreed that we could record this podcast on her birthday. So, happy birthday, mom. Hope you're having a good birthday so far.
Jeanne Brown:
Thank you. I am having a wonderful birthday. It started out real good. Real early and real good. And it's continuing on. The partying continues on.
Amena Brown:
That's right. In this family, we celebrate extended birthdays. So we have the actual day of one's birthday. And then one is able to decide if one wants to celebrate the entire month, or celebrate 30 days from one's birthday, or just make a year of it. We do all sorts of things. We love to see that. I'm so glad you're here on your birthday, mom.
Amena Brown:
So before we get into this poem, I want to talk to y'all about how my mom is responsible for me becoming a writer and a performer. And I think there might be a Behind the Poetry episode when I did Roots and Wings, where I may have told a little bit of this story. And I used to tell this story on stage all the time also. And whenever I've done interviews and people would ask why did I want to write poetry or what inspired me to become a spoken word poet, there's a very particular story about my mom that I tell.
Amena Brown:
My mom has been with me and heard me tell this story on stage before. But I've never had a moment where I could get my mom's side of the story for y'all to be able to hear this. So I want to start with this, mom, and then we'll go into the poem. And there are a few other questions around the poem that I want to ask you. But when I tell my side of the story, mom, I tell the people that the reason why I am a spoken word poet today is because you submitted me to a poetry competition without my knowledge. I want to start the beginning part of that is, do you recall telling me, as a teenager, that there was no privacy in your house? Do you remember saying that?
Jeanne Brown:
I do remember saying that. And I'm glad that I was that type of a mom, because also you all may not know, and let me know if you all have heard this story. You'll have to let her know, I guess, somehow. People can give you responses?
Amena Brown:
Yes.
Jeanne Brown:
But I started finding her poems when she was about 12 years old. And I would read them and I would be finding all these pieces of paper balled up and thrown in a trashcan. And I'm like, "Whose work is this? Who's doing this? Are you working on a project?" And so finally that's when I really realized that she was writing her own poems. But she did not feel comfortable yet sharing them. So yes, I do remember being that mom. I tried to make sure you had your own room and other things like that of your own. But I still am not ashamed of being that mom, because I didn't abuse it. I don't think I did anyway.
Amena Brown:
No. I don't think so either. She basically told me, "Listen here, if you have a notebook, you got some notes." Some of y'all listening are like, y'all are writing notes in class? Yes, because when I was in school we didn't have cell phones. We didn't have ways, electronically, to communicate to our friends. It was either the phone or handwritten notes.
Amena Brown:
So my mom basically let me know early on, if I find it, I'm reading it. If it's a notebook, if it's a folded up note, or whatever it is. And when I was doing stage shows, I would tell how there was a little boy I was writing. I must've been ... maybe I was a sophomore, probably junior year in high school. Because, fun fact, I went to Christian school for ninth and 10th grade, y'all, in San Antonio, Texas. And then I begged my mom to let me go to public school.
Jeanne Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Amena Brown:
If there had been PowerPoint presentations that I had access to then, I probably would've done a PowerPoint presentation to say to my mom, "Please let me go to public school." So she did. She let me go to public school my junior and senior year. So I graduated from Judson High School in San Antonio. Shout out to the Judson Rockets.
Amena Brown:
And my junior year ... This is how bad I was at science. I was taking a class called Chemistry for the Community. And there was a little boy in my class, Terrance, and he and I would write notes during class. And that's how I knew that you were really reading, because I came home from school one time and you were like, "Who's Terrance?" And I was like, "Oh, he's this boy in my chemistry class." And you were basically like, "Well I'm not sending you to school for that kind of chemistry. So you need to focus on your schoolwork. Okay."
Jeanne Brown:
Please.
Amena Brown:
Okay. So let's talk about you came upon some of my notebooks. I remember you came to me and told me that you had read some of the things that I had written. And you told me that you thought that they were good, that they were good pieces of writing. You were encouraging me to keep writing. But of course, like many kids, I just thought this is my mom, she's probably going to think whatever I write is so great.
Amena Brown:
So then I want to talk about the oratorical contest that used to happen at our church when I was growing up. I was growing up in a Black church in San Antonio.
Jeanne Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Amena Brown:
Shout out to New Creation Christian Fellowship. And every year there was an oratorical competition where you could compete, by either memorizing the work of other poets or other writers. Or you could write something yourself. And you were competing against your own age group. And I competed many years and never won. And mom, I would like you to speak to what your feelings were at that time, about why I wasn't winning or what you thought when we were driving away and I still was not winning higher honors in that competition.
Jeanne Brown:
Well first of all, I had to maintain my composure because I felt that every time you didn't win I felt that you didn't win because they didn't know about how good of a writer you were. But also, being a mom ... Now this is true. Being a mom, I just feel that my child should've won every contest. Even if you were doing Maya Angelou's poems or whoever poem you did, you should've just won the contest. It was an oratorical contest. And shout out to our church in San Antonio. They did encourage a lot with the arts, and I'm so grateful for that, for you, because you fit right in.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Jeanne Brown:
So my feelings at that time, I had to keep my composure. My feelings were that you should've won. But also I feel that you would be more of a competitor if you would present your own writing. But I knew that you had already expressed that you didn't feel you wanted to share all your poems with people. So I kind of had to think about it. And then our youth pastor, he told me at the time about the contest.
Amena Brown:
Oh. See, I didn't know that.
Jeanne Brown:
Our youth pastor, which was Steve Tucker at the time, told me about the contest. Steve Tucker, was he the assistant or he was the actual youth pastor?
Amena Brown:
No, he was the assistant still.
Jeanne Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Amena Brown:
Because Elder Campbell was still the youth pastor then.
Jeanne Brown:
Okay.
Amena Brown:
But they were working together.
Jeanne Brown:
They were working together. And they had already told me about the contest, because I was a volunteer youth leader. So he told me about the contest and I was just like, okay. So Amena's going to present her poetry. I'm knowing. So I'm reminding you and I keep going back to him, finding out if he's heard anything, if he knows if you've submitted. And then I finally asked you again, had you submitted it. And you said, "No." And during that time ... which I am still a reader. During that time, I loved to read behind the scenes stories about other writers.
Amena Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeanne Brown:
And during that time, for whatever reason, I was reading a book. And I don't remember what book it was by Stephen King, but I was reading a book about Stephen King. I had read a book he'd written. But I was reading a book about him. And the story was, from his wife, that he majored in English. I may get some of the facts wrong. But he majored in English. He was a teacher, a professor or something like that. He hated it. And every time he would submit a book to a publisher he would get rejected.
Amena Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeanne Brown:
Well, when he wrote Carrie, and I'm sure a lot of these listeners out here have heard of the movie, Carrie. Well that's based on a book by Stephen King.
Amena Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeanne Brown:
Even though he had been rejected many times for other books, his wife found a manuscript in the trash. She took it out of the trash and she mailed it in. And that's literally the first time he actually got paid for a manuscript, a book. I guess whatever you would call the initial book. And he got paid for that. That put him on the map.
Amena Brown:
Wow.
Jeanne Brown:
And I forget what it was. It was something like huge amount at that time. It was like $3,000. He got a book advance.
Amena Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeanne Brown:
So when I read that I was really inspired by that. So I just started doing more research on him and how he got to that point, and how his wife was frustrated at the time because she knew that he was a good writer but he just had never hit that one book. And Carrie was the book for him.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Jeanne Brown:
And we see Stephen King all over the place. So then I got thinking. I said, "I'm going to ask Amena one more time has she submitted her poetry."
Amena Brown:
Did not.
Jeanne Brown:
And she said, "No." And in her teenage way she was like, "No ma'am. I didn't." So I found out that they were at the office working. They were at the church office working that day and I could go up there and use the fax machine.
Amena Brown:
I didn't know about any of this. I'm going to have to circle back to them, that they were in cahoots with you. Because I didn't know about that. Okay. Continue.
Jeanne Brown:
So I had the forms all ready. It had her name, everything filled out. I knew some of her poems that we had printed out. So I just sent them in. Did not know she was going to win, but I had confidence that at least it was worth them seeing her poetry.
Amena Brown:
I do not remember you asking me about the contest in particular. I don't remember that part, maybe because I blocked it out and I had no intentions of entering. But I do remember you bringing up to me, repeatedly, that you wanted to see me doing more with my writing and stuff. And I just really did not feel confident about it. When I would memorize Maya Angelou's Phenomenal Woman, I could feel confident performing it because I knew I could get it down memorized and I could say it and everything, and do well on stage.
Amena Brown:
But something about the idea of my own work out there, I don't know. Something about that made me feel afraid. And it would just stunt me. I couldn't do anything. So anytime I'm imagining that you were asking me about this contest, in my mind I'm like no. Who else would like this poetry? That's how not confident I felt about it.
Amena Brown:
And the contest that my mom was submitting me for, that I didn't know she was submitting me for, was the NAACP ACT-SO competition. And ACT-SO was an acronym. And y'all, I'm so sorry that I cannot remember what all the words were. But I know it was like arts, another was science. There were different categories that you could submit yourself for. It had been a really big thing in the Black community because it gave a lot of students opportunities in these different areas, to be celebrated. And there was a local competition. But then if you won locally, then you would get a chance to also compete nationally. There was a national ACT-SO competition. So if you won in the science category in your local city, then all the winners from your local city would pool together. The community would pool together and raise money to help those kids, and the chaperones, get to where the national competition was.
Amena Brown:
So at the time that my mom is submitting this, I'm actually in my ... I wonder if that was my junior year, if that was before my senior year. That's what I think. I think that's what I'm thinking. I think it was the summer before my ... I can't remember if it was the summer before my senior year or if you submitted it my senior year and we went to ACT-SO the summer before I went to college. That's the part I can't remember.
Jeanne Brown:
I can't remember that part either. It was either the junior year or it was the summer before your senior year.
Amena Brown:
It ended up that nationals were in Atlanta, whatever year you submitted.
Jeanne Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Amena Brown:
And I'm going to circle back to how we discovered that I won the thing. But I ended up seeing Spelman, which y'all know, as listeners, that that is my alma mater. We didn't get to go actually on campus. But I did get to see Spelman's campus from afar. That was the closest I'd ever gotten until moving in.
Amena Brown:
Okay, so let's circle back into the story now. You went up to the church while my youth pastor and one of the other youth leaders were up there working, and faxed this entry into the competition.
Jeanne Brown:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
Okay. So then when they say if you won or not, are they mailing it back to you? How did you find out? Or did they call you? How did you find out that I actually won the thing?
Jeanne Brown:
Well if I remember it correctly, I got a phone call. But also, I think they contacted one of the youth ministers. We'll have to ask them do they remember being contacted. But they contacted us by phone and by letter.
Amena Brown:
Okay.
Jeanne Brown:
Because the local chapter ... And I know it's hurting a lot of people that's hearing about that we faxed it and we got a phone call.
Amena Brown:
There wasn't no email, y'all, okay. We just barely had AOL at that time. And not everybody even had AOL. It couldn't be depended on.
Jeanne Brown:
Right. Right. So they sent a letter and they called.
Amena Brown:
Okay.
Jeanne Brown:
And that's when I was notified that you were selected and that they wanted your poem to be presented at the local ACT-SO contest, and that you were one of the finalists.
Amena Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeanne Brown:
And I had no idea what that was going to mean. I was just excited that someone had finally recognized your poetry.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Jeanne Brown:
And that it was something other than me, that it was outside of me, even though I know I was kind of bootlegging by submitting it without your permission.
Amena Brown:
It worked out so I can't really hate on that. It worked out.
Amena Brown:
Okay, so my memory of how you told me that I won is that when you told me, it was pretty close to when I would've had to go there and read the poem. So in my memory, it felt like it was a Saturday. I know it was a Saturday when you had to go there, because all the community was going to gather together, all the different other kids that were finalists in all the different categories.
Jeanne Brown:
Right.
Amena Brown:
I know it was on a Saturday. But I felt like you notified me ... I was finding out on a Wednesday. It was a couple days. But it wasn't that long between when you told me and when we were actually going to go to there. And you came to me so excited. You were like, "You won this contest. You won something. And so we have to go there. As a part of you winning something, we have to go there and you have to read them your poem." And as you were talking is when I'm starting to realize. Because I'm like, well how could I win something that I didn't submit anything for. And then the more you were talking to me I was like, oh she sent something of mine there and now that's the only way I can accept my winnings, my certificate, or whatever, trophy, whatever they were going to give all of us.
Jeanne Brown:
Right.
Amena Brown:
And y'all, I know that my mom ... Some of you are my friends in real life, y'all know my mom in real life. And a lot of people, even some of you have met my mom at events because we travel together as well. And y'all meet my mom and y'all be like, "I love your mom. She's so sweet." Listen, I love my mom too. But I'm going to tell you right now that the lady that's on this podcast episode if very different from the lady that raised me. Okay.
Amena Brown:
So when she came to me and she said, "Hey, you won this." She didn't say, "Would you like to go to there on Saturday?" She was like, "We going on Saturday because you won this. And what going to go there and you're going to read your poems." And I want to tell y'all that I stood my ground and was like, "I will not go there." But I'm going to tell you that I was afraid of her a little bit. I was a afraid of her. Those of you that have Black mothers, you understand. There was a certain way. She didn't ask me no questions. So I knew there wasn't really no room to be having a discussion about that. It was like, "Hey, we going over there. So you got however many days between now and when that thing is to get yourself together to do this." So I was kind of mumbling under my breath a little bit. But when was like, "We going," I was like, "Yeah. No. Yeah. Sure. That sounds good. Let's do that."
Amena Brown:
So I get there and most of the people in the audience are not people that we know.
Jeanne Brown:
Right.
Amena Brown:
Because it was a totally different cross-section of Black folks in San Antonio really. There weren't really a lot of people there that we went to church with, anybody. Most everybody there, they were not people that I remember us knowing. Right?
Jeanne Brown:
No. You're right. You're right.
Amena Brown:
Okay. So I went there. First of all, I didn't talk to y'all about this poem, and it's not going to be read over this podcast episode. But the poem that my mom found was this poem I had written called Chocolate Mister.
Jeanne Brown:
Ooh, yes.
Amena Brown:
So Chocolate Mister had been selected. I didn't remember the finalist part. So Chocolate Mister had been selected as a finalist and I had to go there and read it. And we were not finding out until we got there if I was actually the winner in that category. Is that how you remember it?
Jeanne Brown:
That's how I remember it.
Amena Brown:
Okay. So I read the poem. And y'all, all I can remember, I'm 17 at the time. So this was my senior year of high school, now that I'm remembering that. I'm 17. And I remember reading this poem, that I read to a lot of my friends. I wouldn't really read my poems in a public setting. If I was talking to my friends on the phone I would read it to them. Or sometimes when we were in between classes or something, or at lunch, I would read poem to them.
Amena Brown:
So I had read the poem several times by this time, but never in front of an audience, audience. So when y'all are remembering the Behind the Poetry episode for Roots and Wings, in Roots and Wings I'm telling, really the second time actually, that I think I ever really performed a poem of my own in a public setting.
Amena Brown:
Now I think that time, in Roots and Wings, when I was in Alabama at that bookstore, I had actually memorized Chocolate Mister by that time. So that was my first time ever saying one of my poems from memory in public.
Jeanne Brown:
Right.
Amena Brown:
But this time, at the ACT-SO competition, was the first time I had ever read it in a public setting. So I had the papers in front of me and I was reading it. And all I can remember is seeing the adults leaning in when I was reading the poem. And I remember that feeling so fascinating to me because I just thought I'm 17, I'm a kid. These are grown folks who've read books and seen films. They've been exposed to art.
Jeanne Brown:
Yeah.
Amena Brown:
They don't have any reason to be leaning in to what I have to say. And that was one of the first times that I felt like now that I'm here it's not as scary as I imagined it was going to be. And apparently maybe I do have something to say that is important enough that not just my friends from school, but grown people are enjoying this thing that I've written.
Jeanne Brown:
Yes. Absolutely.
Amena Brown:
So honestly y'all, my mom is completely responsible for me becoming a spoken word poet because that really was like I got bit by the bug then. Then it was like, oh now I see how these things I write are also to be performed, to be spoken, that that's also something that I can do well.
Jeanne Brown:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
So I think whenever I tell people this story, mom, I always tell them you really did a good job in that moment, of pushing me beyond my comfort zone. Because I never would have believed in myself or pushed myself to think that my work could do that or that I could do that. And the fact that you did that behind my back totally won out here, mom. That was a really good parenting choice. You got to give yourself a pat on the back about that.
Jeanne Brown:
Thank you. And one of the reasons why I wanted to do that, I think I was compelled because spiritually I kept remembering a time when I had listened to some person that was talking to us about parenting our children, during that time. And the person was encouraging us to know what y'all's dreams are and know what God was telling us about what your gifts were. And I saw that that was one of your gifts. I didn't know what it was going to turn into. But I knew that it was a gift.
Jeanne Brown:
You had other gifts too. You had other things that you like doing. But when I saw that, I just realized this is something and I have to try to help her get to this because she will have a chance to use it in other ways, if it's just you writing books or whatever, I didn't know how it was ready to be expressed. I just remember that person saying, "Always try to find out something about your child that they're good at."
Amena Brown:
Right.
Jeanne Brown:
And if they have a dream for something, then try to see if you, as a parent, can be in their dream with them, in your own way.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Jeanne Brown:
And that's what propelled me. And so of course, when I read that story about Stephen King, it was on.
Amena Brown:
Okay. One thing I have to say about you, mom, just of course now having 40 plus years of life having been your daughter. One thing I'll say about my mom, y'all, is my mom is a celebrator to the end. My mom is ready to cheer you on. You doing it? She's ready to support you. I always have this funny story and this memory I have of when I went from Christian to public school. Here's me showing up to this big Texas school, big football school, big track and field school. And I remember this coach coming into one of my classes to talk to the other athletes, and looking at me and going, "Stand up." And I stood up and she said, "You meet me on the track at 3:00." And I was so scared.
Amena Brown:
So I just went out there. And y'all, first of all, I'm a terrible athlete. Maybe in another lifetime. Maybe had my matriculation in school gone differently, maybe I would've made a good athlete. But I'm really not good at that. But the coach had asked me to come out there, so I did. And those of you that have children, or that remember when you were a teenager, sometimes when you get home from school your parents are like, "How was school today?" And you kind of, "Bop, bop, bop, bop. School. School. School. Class. Class. Saw friends. Saw friends." You're kind of too cool for school to be talking to your parents, giving them lots of details.
Jeanne Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Amena Brown:
So I'm assuming that I must've said to my mom, "Yeah, and then this lady came in and she said I should meet her at the track. So I guess I did." And I'm like, well go out there I guess and see how that happens. Anyways. I go to my room and do my homework, talk on the phone to my friends.
Amena Brown:
Y'all, I lie to y'all not. My mom showed up to the track. Do y'all understand me? She showed up to track practice. This isn't a meet. Okay. This isn't a meet. This isn't the state competition. My mom showed up to track practice with my sister, who has also been on this podcast. So if I'm 17, my sister's like six. So I'm assuming my mom probably went and picked my sister up from school, took her and brought her over. I get to practice, my mom is sitting in the bleachers with my sister. Y'all. "Mena. Go Mena."
Jeanne Brown:
I remember this. Oh, I was so excited.
Amena Brown:
"Yay. Yes. Mena, go girl. Yes. Do it, Mena." At the practice. That's how much my mom believed in us, as her children. She was like, I'm not waiting until you get to the Olympics. I don't care that this is your first practice. I'm going to cheer for you like you are winning the game.
Amena Brown:
And of course when you're a teenager, I just felt mortified. I felt so embarrassed. But now, as an adult, I'm like yo my mom really loved me like that. She really believed in me like that, that she was like, "I'm going to come out here and let you know." Even my mom, as a single mama, working as hard as you worked. There were some times that your work schedule, it wasn't going to allow for you to be able to be like, "I can step into your class in the middle of the day and bring everybody these cookies," or whatever. There were just some times your schedule wasn't going to allow for that, because you were providing for us by yourself.
Amena Brown:
But there were moments when you could be there like that. You would be there with the bells on, y'all. Okay. My mom is not playing these games, at all.
Jeanne Brown:
Oh yes. Oh yes. I was so excited for you. And I come from a long line of people that encourage one another. My mom, my grandma, whatever you needed, they would just be like, "You got it. You can do it." In their own way they encouraged you and they showed the love. So I think it just kind of ballooned or blossomed in me, when it came to you, and then of course when it came to your sister. When I found out something about athletics, I was like, "What? You're going to try out for the track team? Yes. I'm there. Let's go." I was ready.
Amena Brown:
Okay mom, let's dig into this poem now. Let's get into God Bless Mom, which is a poem that I wrote about my mom. So as usually in a Behind the Poetry episode, we're going to play a recording of the poem so that you can hear the poem in full. Know that my mom is not new to this poem. My mom has heard this poem many, many times. But now we're going to get a chance to talk through it so that she can share, with you, her real life experiences that I'm also writing about in the poem. So let's take a listen to God Bless Mom.
Amena Brown:
My mother read books to the swollen stomach that would become me. Read about what to expect when you're expecting, about disciples, apostles, prophets, sinners, and saints until her semi-colon broke, sending amniotic vowels and consonants to splitting apart. The time between my sentences grew less than five minutes apart. My paragraph had arrived and her margins stretched 10 centimeters wide so quickly that there would be no time for epidural or explanation. She must breathe, push, labor, count to 10, and then count 10 fingers and 10 toes. Trace her fingers on the lines of little eyes, little ears, little mouth, little nose.
Amena Brown:
And from the light of touch lamp on the nightstand she read me Golden books, sat me down in Peter's chair, kicked me rhymes from The Berenstain Bears. We put our hands together and said our prayers, that God would bless Teddy Ruxpin, Barbie and Ken, that God would bless Sydney, my one-eyed stuff animal koala bear best friend. That God would bless daddy and grandma, right before mom showed me Where the Wild Things Are.
Amena Brown:
See, she taught me to read, until I was reading her to sleep. Words given to me by the number five and letter A on Sesame Street. And oh the places I would go with Sam, Green Eggs and Ham in tow, searching for golden tickets in Roald Dahl's prose. I wanted to float on giant peaches with James.
Amena Brown:
Y'all remember this one?
Amena Brown:
Read Beverly Cleary, Ramona and Beezus, until I was Amena the brave. And I never really went through that stage of slipping my little girl feet into my mom's heels to play dress-up. I just wanted to read her library when I grew up, hoping I could be one of Mufaro's beautiful daughters, and maybe one day turn the pages of Tar Baby. See, she taught me to find my roots in the handshake of Alex Haley, taught me to love the stale paper scent of the library, to treasure books, cards, and stationary. And even today, years later, she joins me at kitchen table talking womanhood, over the scent of earl gray tea, taking in all the mystery, lifes, and Walter Mosley, trading Baldwin and Baraka, singing songs of Solomon, exchanging journals, wisdom, and pens.
Amena Brown:
And she reminds me with a skillful subtlety that sometimes this is where the sidewalk ends, that many storylines will come to an end, only for better ones to begin, that life is a page turner and you should write your own plot twists. That many will call themselves writers, but there is only one author who knows the end from the beginning, and sometimes the best and hardest thing you'll ever do in your life is trust him. Never forget, you pay close attention to your character. And remember that people are characters. They come and go, but never discount them. People are characters and your story won't happen without them. See, there is light in the attic, at the end of tunnels, and in her eyes. So tonight, before I shut off nightstand light, I pray that God will bless mom, and I'll read myself to sleep.
Amena Brown:
Not me and my mom both in here in our feelings. Hearing that poem, man. That poem is from my first live album, Live at Java Monkey. I can't believe how long ago that was now. So what made me want to write this poem is ... I think I was actually working on another poem and those beginning lines came to me about you, mom. I was supposed to be working on the other poem, but God Bless Mom came to me more quickly than whatever it was I was working on. And I was happy about the way it came to me, because of course, like many poets and many songwriters have dedicated pieces to their mothers. And I was like, "I love my mom. I would love to have a poem about my mom." But I didn't want it to be a generic mama poem. I didn't want it to be a poem that's for everybody's mom. I wanted it to be a poem that was very specific to you.
Amena Brown:
So then when that motif came in my mind about the words and the sentences and the books. And then that's always been a bonding thing between you and I, reading together when I was little and going to all these bookstores and greeting card stores growing up. That felt like oh yes, this is my mom's poem. This is very specifically about Jeanne Brown and what my experience was growing up with you.
Jeanne Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Amena Brown:
So I was really, really happy to see how the poem turned out. And since you're here with me, mom, I would love to talk to you about some of that real life story behind writing the poem. Because my experience of being your kid was you had a big wall unit. I don't know if it's because I was coming here to see you today, but I actually dreamed about that wall unit last night.
Jeanne Brown:
Oh wow.
Amena Brown:
You had a tall bamboo wall unit.
Jeanne Brown:
Yeah. I remember it well.
Amena Brown:
And it just had books and books and books and books. And y'all, I remember as a kid going to that wall unit and picking out a book sometimes and opening it up. And I was just too young to understand what I was reading. You had Tar Baby on that shelf.
Jeanne Brown:
Yeah.
Amena Brown:
You had The Temple of My Familiar by Alice Walker on your shelves.
Jeanne Brown:
Yes. Yes.
Amena Brown:
And so I remember pulling out those books sometimes, and I could tell from what little I could understand that it was beautiful. But I wasn't old enough and had not gone to school enough to really understand what I was reading. So that always ... that line in the poem is so true, that that's really what I wanted to, was get old enough that I could understand these beautiful books you had. So can you think of what made you love reading or what made you really become this connoisseur of books and stories?
Jeanne Brown:
I think it started when I was younger because my mom used to take us to the library. But when I was in school, they encouraged us to read so many books. And it's interesting because now I'm going back to that to where I'm trying to increase the number of books that I read per month, so that hopefully by the end of a year there's a large amount. Because, of course we didn't have the internet.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Jeanne Brown:
We didn't have cell phones. So that didn't interfere with our reading time. So that's how it started for me. And I can remember in high school, especially in high school, there was just this big ... I was in a band when I was in high school. So by me being in the marching band, we read a lot. He told us a lot about music, our instructor did. But also, our English teacher. I loved English. And I took this literature course and that really catapulted me to really even ... The foundation that I had, it made me read even more. Because in the literature class we started reading Shakespeare, we started reading other authors. Some were people of color, some were not.
Jeanne Brown:
But because I just really loved reading, at that time it just became ... I don't know. It just became a thing, a bigger thing in my life, to the point where even my classmates, they would say, "You're just trying to be the teacher's pet." Because we would read Shakespeare and I would go home and read it again. So when we came to class, the teacher would ask questions and I would answer them, or I would give her my opinion. Or even if we read something, say for example if we read something about Martin Luther King or Malcolm X or somebody like that, it just interested me more to want to read it more.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Jeanne Brown:
So as a child, going to the library, and then being encouraged to read and seeing my mom read. And then, of course in church, of course they read the Bible. We went to Sunday school and we had a little booklet that we would read. But that was the foundation of just actually learning how to read. But in high school is when it really, really just really kicked off. To this day I still, I love Shakespeare. I just love it. And I love all of the authors that I've read, like the ones that you mentioned, Alice Walker. Some of those women that wrote. And there were some male ones too, Langston Hughes. I read Langston Hughes too.
Amena Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeanne Brown:
I read a lot of people of color, books that they wrote. And now I'm catching up on some of the newer books that I hadn't heard of, from some of the times that we have now. We have a lot of writers now that I'm catching up on some of the books that they've written. And it's just really, really been ... It's just amazing. The thing about reading, you could go to another world. You can go to another country. I may be in Georgia, but I can be in Africa with this person.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Jeanne Brown:
And I'm reading about Nelson Mandela or some other person who went through something. I don't know, it's stimulating to me.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Jeanne Brown:
And so I would say that was the time when it really got to where I was just like, I'm reading all this stuff. And then I was in the military station in D.C. And D.C., at that time that I was there, was a mecca. And it still is, I just haven't lived there in a long time. But there was so many opportunities to actually meet these authors like Alex Haley. There was just so many authors that I met that it was just amazing. I had read their books when I was in high school. So when I went to something in D.C. and that person was there, it was just amazing to me.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. And I remember, because with Keda and I being almost 11 years apart ... So I was 10 when you were pregnant with Keda.
Jeanne Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Amena Brown:
And I remember it being really important to you that we would be reading, while you were pregnant. And you also told me that when you were pregnant with me you did the same thing. You said that you read to us, even when you were pregnant. What was it that made you, just that early on, and even as we were young children, even before we could read ourselves, why was it so important to you that we would also be exposed to good stories and exposed to good books?
Jeanne Brown:
For one thing, I learned that when a mother is pregnant with a child, I learned that even though the child is in utero, the child can hear. That's the reason why they recognize their parent's voices when they're actually born. But also that reading to them and hearing your voice is a stimulation. It stimulates their nerves. They're benefiting from that.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Jeanne Brown:
So when I learned that, that's what made me want to read to you even more. And also, music. Because the hearing of the fetus when they're inside their mama, their hearing is very acute. And that's the reason why a lot of times people will say, "Well I don't know how they seem like they recognize this person's voice." Well it's because they've been hearing this person's voice all this time.
Amena Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeanne Brown:
And whatever age ... I forget what the weeks were, but there's certain weeks where they're really hearing their surroundings. So then it became important to me, once I found that out, after you all were born it became important because I wanted you to be able to think and not just think in one realm. I wanted your mind to be expanded to where you knew things, whether it was history or if it was non-fiction or if it was fiction. That was important to me because I wanted you to be an independent thinker. And when I was in nursing school they taught us that. And I was thinking to myself, wow I grew up like this.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Jeanne Brown:
Learning how to read something and interpret it. Reading the newspaper or reading just an article. So I wanted y'all to be able to, as little girls, I wanted y'all to be able to read a book, to know about what literature was out here, and to know what was being said in the books.
Amena Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeanne Brown:
If you could read it, you could do it if you needed to do a certain thing.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Jeanne Brown:
And I also knew that it would enhance your ability. I learned that from reading ... I read a lot of psychology books when you were young too. And so I think that influenced me because this one psychologist was talking about how important that was, in year one to year five. And so that really got me going. That just really got me going. It was like that was just made for me. I would read books where the psychologist will say reading to children, it helps their development. So every year I would look up what words you were supposed to be saying. And I learned that you started talking at a young age.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Jeanne Brown:
You started talking even though other people thought you were a quiet child. But you started talking at a very young age. So I attributed that to the fact that you were bright anyway, but also it helped you to formulate your words because I started reading to you. And then after a while, you started reading to me and I would fall asleep.
Amena Brown:
Right. That's true. That line in the poem, y'all, is very true because my mom being a nurse and depending on if she was just getting off from a shift and putting me to bed or if she was putting me to bed after ... depending on how her schedule was going. So as I got older, I do remember by the time I was five or six I would have some nights where I would start reading and you would go to sleep. But I would feel so accomplished, that I was getting to read to you until you went to sleep.
Jeanne Brown:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
And one thing I will say to y'all about my mom, when you brought up critical thinking, mom, that my sister and I talk about this all the time. And this is one of the things I really do love about you, mom. That even though, of course, as my sister and I both have grown up and become grown women, all three of us have different ways that we see the world, and our different opinions or thoughts on different things. And one thing about my mom is, my mom is open to having a conversation with you.
Amena Brown:
Now, you might be saying some things that she doesn't like. Or you might be saying some things that she doesn't agree with. And her jawline might be tight, tight, tight about what you're saying. But if it's this intellectual discourse, if there's an opportunity for you to be like, okay there's another perspective for me to learn or hear from, even if you walk away from the conversation and you're like, "I still do not agree with the fact that you said that." Even now, for us as adult women, having a relationship with you as our mom, that's one of the things that I love. Sometimes I look at Keda and I'll be like, "I know mom didn't like that, but you see how she stuck with us?"
Jeanne Brown:
Oh yeah. I stick with you. As they say, I ride with you, whatever. That's what family does. And it's just the same if you have a best friend. Even though your best friend might be saying something that you don't agree with, because you love them and because you know where they're coming from ... You may not understand everything. And you all just expand me, because there's some books that I hadn't heard of and I'll ask you all about this book or, "Have you heard of this?." Or, "What does this exactly mean?" I like the fact that you can explain it and that, as I keep an open mind, that I can become more of a person because I'm understanding.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Jeanne Brown:
Because if we all agreed about everything, that would make us pretty much like clones or robots or whatever.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Jeanne Brown:
So that's how we stimulate our brains, how we stimulate ourselves spiritually and emotionally. And so we just love it. I remember one time when we would all go to Barnes and Nobles. We could stay at Barnes and Nobles all day.
Amena Brown:
Matt and I were dating and he would ask me, "What's your family's holiday traditions?" And I was like, "Oh yeah, well on my mom's side of the family, whenever we spend Thanksgiving together with our extended family like mom, grandma, my aunts and uncles," I was like, "Yeah, we have Thanksgiving on Thursday and then on Black Friday we go to Barnes and Noble and just hang out there all day." And Matt looked at me like, say what now? He was like, "So what are y'all doing when you go in there?" And I was like, "Well sometimes grandma plays Scrabble and we just read magazines and read books." And I could just see Matt's eyes glazing over like, "And y'all feel like this is a good time? Okay. Okay, I got to read some books the day after Thanksgiving. Can't wait."
Jeanne Brown:
Oh yes. Yes.
Amena Brown:
But that is totally very true of our family, y'all. Really it's a family of readers and critical thinkers, lovers of words, which I love that. Okay, I want to switch gears, mom, and let's talk about tea for a little bit, because in this poem I have that line there which is still ... If people were to ask me when I close my eyes and think of my mom's house, what do I think of? And I'm like that scene that I'm describing in the book where I'm sitting at the kitchen table with you, wherever your kitchen table was in San Antonio, once you moved here, the different places you've lived since you've lived here. It's always this moment of sitting there at the table drinking tea with you, just talking about life. And Earl Grey tea in particular is the tea that whenever I smell the scent of that tea, I always think of you because that's the first tea I remember drinking with you. That and English breakfast were two teas you loved.
Jeanne Brown:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
So do you know what brought on your love for tea? I know you're also a lover of coffee too.
Jeanne Brown:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
But you drank tea with us too. So what brought about your love for tea?
Jeanne Brown:
Well I love Earl Grey. I think the Earl Grey came in because at some point in my life I had started reading ... Well there's different schools of thought. I started reading about how bad coffee was for you. But then I started reading about it's good to drink coffee. And so when I started reading up on that, then I started trying to learn about different teas that you could drink. I was a novice at the time. I didn't know a lot. So I started with that one because I had heard that that one was a real good one to drink in the morning. So that's probably what led me to trying that one first, when I first heard about it. Then later on I found out about how the different teas have different flavors. You can buy teas that have flavors. And it's not necessarily caffeine. But I like Earl Grey ... Well, I like Earl Grey because it does have caffeine in it.
Amena Brown:
Yeah it does.
Jeanne Brown:
I'm a be honest. I'm just going to go ahead and be honest, okay.
Amena Brown:
It's a good caffeinated tea. I ain't going to lie about it.
Jeanne Brown:
Yeah, its a good caffeinated. And it's just something about the aroma of it when you're drinking it.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Jeanne Brown:
Even before you drink it. It's kind of like coffee, in a way, don't you think? Because you could go into Starbucks or some familiar coffee shop, and even if you don't drink coffee, just the smell of the coffee does something to you.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Jeanne Brown:
Because your body is going to respond to it. Either it smells good or it may smell like burnt coffee if it's not the right coffee shop. But that tea is just so therapeutic. So then this ties back to the reading.
Amena Brown:
Okay.
Jeanne Brown:
So then I started reading about the healing properties of tea.
Amena Brown:
Oh.
Jeanne Brown:
So after I tried the Earl Grey and the English tea that you mentioned, the breakfast tea, then I started finding out there's different teas that can help you, as far as when you're trying to heal up. That's the reason why when people would get a cold I would remember somebody saying, "Would you like some hot tea?" And then they would serve it to you with honey, because honey is very therapeutic also.
Amena Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeanne Brown:
And so I just feel like that just tied me into it. And then I have a friend, my best friend, Naima, I call her a tea guru. And she was trying to tell me how to get off caffeine, which I still don't know that that's a good thing to do.
Amena Brown:
Help us. Help. It's hard.
Jeanne Brown:
But I understand. So she helped show me some other teas, like a lot of the African teas. Some of the African teas you can buy, like the rooibos tea have no caffeine. Some have some caffeine. And when we went to Africa that time, I got a chance to drink some actual African tea, in Africa.
Amena Brown:
Oh yeah. That's amazing.
Jeanne Brown:
So that's how I got started with the tea. And then once I read about it, that it is good for you and it has some healing properties, I was sold.
Amena Brown:
That's how I know I'm my mom's daughter, because after Matt and I moved into the house we live in now, I had all this tea and I was trying to figure out how do I store it. So you know how when you move into a house ... my mom moved into her house a couple years ago too. So when you're moving into your house, you're always researching different things people do, how they store different things. And I saw somebody had a tea drawer in their house, instead of the cabinets. Because I couldn't figure out with the cabinets we had. So y'all, I have the largest tea drawer I've ever had in my whole life. But it works out so great, because between both of our houses we both know there's enough tea.
Jeanne Brown:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
When mom comes over, she knows I have different teas I'm trying out. And I'll come to her house and she'll have a tea I've never heard before, so I can try that out. So that is one of my favorite memories with you.
Amena Brown:
I wanted to circle back too, to the Alex Haley line in this poem, because I don't know that I've often shared this story. But when we were in D.C., mom is true to what she's saying that I just have such great childhood memories of us growing up in the DMV. Shout out to those of you that are in the DMV right now. We were living in Silver Spring, Maryland. And you worked in D.C., worked at two big hospitals there. In our time living there you worked at what was then Walter Reed, which was a very big medical center at the time. And you also worked at George Washington University hospital, which was another big medical center to have worked at there.
Jeanne Brown:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
But at the time, I don't know if this still happens in D.C. or not, but back then y'all ... this would've been late 80s, early 90s. There was an event called Black Family Day that was a big old festival on the National Mall. And there would be vendors there selling jewelry and clothing and purses and bags. There'd be performances. And famous black people would come and they would have different tents set up. And some of them were authors. I remember we met Esther Rolle, who starred in many things. But she was most well known to me from having starred in Good Times, as well as having starred in A Raisin in the Sun.
Jeanne Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). That's right.
Amena Brown:
So you would be able to line up, with your family, and actually physically shake hands with this famous black person that came to give of their time. I was really, and still am, very fascinated with Roots and Alex Haley. My mom is diehard. Like when Alex Haley had written the autobiography of Malcolm X, when he and Malcolm X had worked on that together, when the movie came out I was a preteen. Yeah, I was preteen, probably junior high student. Older than preteen. A junior high student when the movie came out. And y'all, not my mom telling me that morning that I wasn't going to school and I need to read this autobiography. She handed me the Malcolm X autobiography by Alex Haley. And she was like, "You read this until I get home. And when I get home, we going to the movie."
Amena Brown:
So this same Alex Haley, before we moved to Texas ... I must've been, mom, I had to be eight or nine years old.
Jeanne Brown:
Yeah. I think so.
Amena Brown:
Because it was before Keda was born.
Jeanne Brown:
Yeah.
Amena Brown:
And we stood in line. It was a long line because, of course, Alex Haley means a lot to the Black community, and especially at that time.
Jeanne Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Amena Brown:
Roots the miniseries having been out. Roots having been a New York Times best seller and everything. And so we stood in line. You stood in there with me until we could meet Alex Haley in person. And I shook his hand. I think at that time you had told him I wanted to be a writer and everything. Just even having that moment as an eight year old. In this poem, y'all, when I saw the hand shake of Alex Haley, I literally meant my mom stood in line with me to help me meet him. That was such a wonderful memory.
Jeanne Brown:
Yes. You were little. I think you might've been about eight or nine.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Jeanne Brown:
It was amazing to me to get to meet him. We met Esther Rolle, like you mentioned. And we met the young actor that played ... at that time he was very young, that played Theo.
Amena Brown:
Oh, Malcolm-Jamal Warner. That's right.
Jeanne Brown:
We met him. He was amazing.
Amena Brown:
That's right.
Jeanne Brown:
But meeting Alex Haley, that was just ... And of course it was a once in a lifetime event. I never got a chance to meet him after that, and not before that. So the Black Family Reunion was just amazing. You got a chance to meet people that were from Africa, that came home from Africa back to D.C. to experience that.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Jeanne Brown:
It was just so communal. Everyone was just friendly and wanted to meet your child, if you had a child with you. And I had you with me when we got a chance to meet Alex Haley. And he was just so personable.
Amena Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeanne Brown:
I speak about it now and I think to myself, wow that was an opportunity.
Amena Brown:
It was amazing.
Jeanne Brown:
And I'm sure they have other events like that. But during that time, everybody was just there. We knew what we were there for.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Jeanne Brown:
And we knew we were going to get a chance to meet these celebrities. But it was just amazing that they wanted to meet us.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Jeanne Brown:
Because when you went up to shake his hand and talk to him, I remember he talked to you just like he might've been your uncle.
Amena Brown:
He did. He did. Because he wanted to know what did you want to be when you grow up. So I think either you had said it or I had told him that I wanted to be a writer, because I had felt that way very young, just from being a reader though. It was being a reader that made me go, whoever gets to write words and put their words in this book, I want to do that.
Jeanne Brown:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
So I'm sure that either you said that or I did. And he talked and basically said, "You can do that. You can do anything you want to do."
Jeanne Brown:
Sure did.
Amena Brown:
And there's so many things, for those of you that are parents or are aunties, uncles here, have different mentees, have children in your life in any way. There's so many ways you can speak into the life of a child. And you don't know how those words, those good words ... We hear so many stories where ... and so many of us have experienced such negative words being spoken over us as children. But you can do a good thing when you can speak those good words into a child. I was just soaking up everything he said like a sponge. And of course, I'm eight years old. I have no way of knowing that one day I'm going to become this full-time writer, author, poet. I could never have guessed that I would actually get to have a career that I dreamed of as a little girl. But that totally influenced me to feel well this is a real thing. I'm talking to him and I wasn't even old enough to have read Roots. But I had held the book in my hand.
Jeanne Brown:
Right.
Amena Brown:
Because I think we had at least one copy at home or in the library, whatever.
Jeanne Brown:
Yeah we did.
Amena Brown:
So those moments are so powerful and so important. I also talked in this about journaling.
Jeanne Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Amena Brown:
About how just that is also connected to my memory with you. I talked in this poem about the journals and the pens and those different things. And you used to say to me ... and you said this to Keda as well. You would say that we should always have a place where we could be unedited.
Jeanne Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Amena Brown:
And you would say your journal's a good place to have that, because that's a place that you write for yourself. You're not writing for anybody else to read it. No one has to be the judge of that. You should have some place where you get to put your words. And that encouraged me to feel like my thoughts and feelings were important. Whether or not I chose to share them in a public manner didn't matter in that moment. It mattered, me writing that. And I've passed that on to so many young women, because it's such a powerful message that you gave to us.
Jeanne Brown:
Yes it is. It is, it's important. And I'm glad that that influenced you that way. I just knew that it was something that was valuable. For example, I went through a time in my life where I just wrote a word down. I couldn't even put a sentence to the word. And then I would just start looking up the words and say why is this word coming to me and what does it mean. And so I would journal just about that word. That would be the word of the day for me.
Amena Brown:
Wow.
Jeanne Brown:
I went through a period of time where I would go ... say I went to the post office. And I would just be like, none of these people in here even know me. I could literally be invisible. Unless I just happened to run into somebody I knew.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Jeanne Brown:
So that day ... my word for that day was invisible. So I went home and I started journaling my thoughts about the word invisible, or what it means for a person when they feel invisible. And I think that helped me. As far as growing up in the south, it helped me to be able to recognize people and to recognize that this is a person.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Jeanne Brown:
This is a person here that you're talking to. So try to think about how you would want to be treated. Or even if you don't know what the person is going through, try not to treat the person like they're invisible.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Jeanne Brown:
So just things like that, that may come to you. And you might get a poem while you're writing in your journal.
Amena Brown:
Right. That's true.
Jeanne Brown:
You used to say it might just be one line at first.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Jeanne Brown:
And so I'm glad that that influenced you that way. And I just think, now that I talk to different people, great people, actors, writers, they talk about journaling. I just love the fact that that's being brought up. I just wish that I knew it was a thing that other people were doing. I would've probably been a part of the community.
Amena Brown:
Right. Okay, so let me ask you these final two questions about the poem. Normally, mom, I close the Behind the Poetry episodes ... And y'all, my mom knows this because she is an avid listener of this podcast, even when I be on here cussing.
Jeanne Brown:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
That's why I go ahead and let her know on the recording, so she can prepare herself. But she knows this. I close the Behind the Poetry episodes, normally I talk about what it was like performing the poem for the first time and how I feel about the poem now. But I'm going to turn those two questions to you. And maybe you don't remember the first time, because I know you've heard this poem now countless, countless times.
Jeanne Brown:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
But in the early first few times you heard this poem, how did you feel hearing the poem for the first time?
Jeanne Brown:
I just felt so overwhelmingly happy. It just made me just so happy, because the way you put ... At the beginning, when you mentioned about the semi-colon, that's just so ingenious. Who would've thought that a child of mine would be able to come up with this, even though I knew you were gifted with your writing. But I was just so happy. I was just on cloud nine the first time that I can remember hearing it. I was just on cloud nine. I was just so proud and just so happy that you actually formulated a poem about mom, and the mom that it was featuring was about me.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Jeanne Brown:
And the things that you remembered in the poem is some things that I just never even thought it impacted. Moms and, like you said, aunties and cousins and mentors, we do different things and we're not even realizing how it's impacting the person. But it is impacting them.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Jeanne Brown:
And hopefully it's in a good way. But when I realized from that poem that you had actually been paying attention to some things in life I said, "Wow. Wow, God." I was like, wow. And then you were obedient, because you could have got the poem and just left it in your journal.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Jeanne Brown:
You could have decided you were only going to perform it for us personally, when we were together, say on Mother's Day or other times. So the fact that you shared it with the world ... I'm still overwhelmed when I hear it. I love it.
Amena Brown:
I can't remember exactly the first time that I did the poem, mom. But I kind of feel like I did it several times without you being in the audience. And then by the time ... I do feel like I remember one of the first couple of times I was doing that in my poetry set and you were in the audience, and feeling the little choked up feelings. Because it was always wonderful and emotional to do the poem, even when you weren't there, because it was this very fun and nostalgic poem that other people would hear their own mom or Ramona and Beezus and some of those things. People would be like, "Oh man, I remember that show. I remember those books."
Jeanne Brown:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
And so it was always very well received by the audience. But I feel like you were traveling with me or something.
Jeanne Brown:
Yeah.
Amena Brown:
And I was like, "Oh, y'all, I'm about to do this poem and my mom's here." So it was very emotional to see you there in the audience as I'm talking about you, and then other people knowing you were in the audience so they're all looking at you while I'm doing the poem. That was just a really ... it was a really beautiful moment because I'm not a poet that writes a whole lot of poems to people. I only have a handful of poems like that. I've written one to you. I've written one to Keda. There's very few poems like that, that I also would perform that way. So it as really beautiful.
Amena Brown:
And y'all, of course mom has traveled with me many times now.
Jeanne Brown:
Yeah.
Amena Brown:
And that poem, especially when I would be doing a lot of women's events, I would always include that poem in my set. And so even all the times you hear it, she would always tell me, "I never get tired of it."
Jeanne Brown:
Never. And that's true, I never get tired of it. It will make you cry, depending on what you're going through. Even though you wrote it for me, with me in mind, other people, I'm sure, it was emotional impact on them too, depending on where they are in their life at that time.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. So last question, mom. I wanted to know, now how do you feel about that poem now that you've heard this poem countless times? We've had a chance to talk through it. When you think about that was almost 15 years ago when I was first writing that poem. Yeah. Yeah. That was almost 15 years ago, mom. So now, having heard the poem, and us having grown to what I love is this wonderful place in my relationship with you. And I'm sure many of you listening will understand this part that I'm saying. But you have a certain time that you're growing up and your parents are your parents.
Jeanne Brown:
Right.
Amena Brown:
Your parents are your teachers. You're assuming there's no life other than when you're my mom and when you're my teacher or whatever.
Jeanne Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Amena Brown:
You never see your teacher at the club or something like that.
Jeanne Brown:
Right.
Amena Brown:
If you run into your teacher at the grocery store you're like, "Hmm, you go to the grocery store? You eat meals? You do things other than grade papers?" So I feel like when you're a kid, parents and teachers can have very one dimensional ways that you think of them. And then as you get older, you then become able to see your parents more fully. For me, I'm able to look at my mom and be like well my mom's my mom, but my mom is also a nurse who also had a career. She's been in a career that she loves. And my mom fell in love many times in her life and danced on the dance floor. You just have a more rounded version of your parent. And I have enjoyed this season of time with you where, you're still my mom, but also I really like you as a person.
Jeanne Brown:
And I like you.
Amena Brown:
We can get in a car and go to Target and have a good time. We can go across the world and have a good time.
Jeanne Brown:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
And I really love that for us. And I love that for me, because it gives me an opportunity to get to know you as my mom, the woman. And now you can tell me a few stories that you couldn't tell me when I was 10.
Jeanne Brown:
Right.
Amena Brown:
But now you're like, "Well you're grown too, so let me tell you what really happened, now that I can speak on it."
Jeanne Brown:
Exactly.
Amena Brown:
So I would just love to hear, as we're closing the episode, from you, mom, how you feel now having heard this poem over these years, and what you think about that, and any other closing thoughts you want to tell us on your birthday episode.
Jeanne Brown:
Oh, my birthday episode. I just love how you put the poem together. And I just love how it reaches me and it reaches other people. Whenever I've been traveling with you and you did the poem, other people would always come up to me afterward and say, "Wow, how did you do this?" I was like, "I have no formula. I just encouraged her to do what she was good at and what she loved. And she did it." So I just love that poem and I'm glad that you still have it in your library of poems to perform, and that we got a chance to talk about it.
Jeanne Brown:
And when you talk about the books, the different books that I had, because now I'm going back through my library of the books. You know, okay these books I have to keep. This is a new one that I heard about through Amena. So I have to keep her book over here to make sure that I go back to her book. And then some of the books I'm downloading. I got to get back to the poetry. You and I, that'll be a conversation that we'll have to have. I got to find out some of the poets that I don't know about, that may have books that I may want to listen to some of their poetry or read some of their poetry.
Jeanne Brown:
But I just love it. I just think it's a good way to have your relationship. And by me having daughters, it gave me an opportunity to raise y'all. But now I get an opportunity to actually ... it's a mother/daughter relationship, but we have a friendship too.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeanne Brown:
And I like the fact that you brought up about we might not always agree with everything, but our family is the type of family, we're very outspoken. So we're easy to agree to disagree. But tomorrow when you talk to us, that's not even an issue. We get it out of our system by talking it over.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. That's true.
Jeanne Brown:
Closing, I love the fact that I can call you and I can say, "I got some tea to share with you today." And you'll answer me back with an emoji and I know we're going to have a good conversation, whether it's five minutes or 15 minutes.
Amena Brown:
Come on tea emoji. Now I get to enjoy double the tea, mom.
Jeanne Brown:
Double the tea. Yes.
Amena Brown:
See how we did that?
Jeanne Brown:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
That worked out. Mom, thank you so much for being willing to spend some of your birthday recording this today. I really appreciate it. And I have loved having you on the podcast to do this Behind the Poetry. This was very special. So thank you for coming into the living room. We appreciate you.
Jeanne Brown:
Well thank you, and I'm glad to be in the HER living room. I love it. I can't wait to see another episode, other than my episode I'm going to listen to, but of course other episodes. And I've gone back and listened to some previous episodes. So it's wonderful, so keep up the good work. This was just a treat for me.
Amena Brown:
HER with Amena Brown is produced by Matt Owen for Sol Graffiti Productions, as a part of the Seneca Women Podcast Network, in partnership with iHeart Radio. Thanks for listening. And don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast.