Amena Brown:
Everybody, welcome back to a new episode of HER with Amena Brown. And I am your host, Amena Brown. And the topic of this episode was not intended to be correlated to the number of this episode, but the title is correct. We are going to discuss why I think it's important that I should have underwear that covers both of my booty cheeks. And maybe you feel the same way, but I wasn't doing that because the episode number is 69. And if that joke doesn't make any sense to you, let's go on to the next thing. So I, first of all, have talked to a couple of girlfriends recently about just my current thoughts on the importance of my underwear. I'm not going to be talking as much about bras today. I think I will do a separate episode regarding that. Today, we're going to focus on underwear. We're focus on drawers. We're going to focus on panties or whatever you call your underwear or your drawers. All three of those terms will be interchangeable for me during this episode.
Amena Brown:
It's interesting because a part of what brought up this idea that I was like, "I'm going to take this into the HER living room. We're all going to bring our hummus and our partially cut up green peppers and talk about this." I was talking to a couple of girlfriends recently about how my relationship to my underwear is changing, which is probably about a bigger discussion of where my body is changing. And that is changing my relationship to how I want to feel in my clothing. But before we get into that, I want to talk about what I was told growing up about underwear. And it's interesting to think about this, right? Because I've talked on this podcast before, about how I grew up in church, grew up in a very strict conservative environment.
Amena Brown:
And when I say conservative, I don't just mean politically. Although there may have been some ways it was a conservative environment politically, but I mean conservative in the sense of wanting you to wear clothing where pretty much your body was going to be covered and particularly covered around genitalia, breasts, like obviously booty, all those things want all of that to be covered up and not be seen or be close to being seen. And in addition to that, we also want the clothing you wear to not be so tight, that those things are more easily seen or "imagined" which takes us down a road of purity culture. And you may not be familiar with that if that wasn't something that you grew up with, but in a lot of Christian churches and Christian communities, there was this idea that sexual purity was very much related to how you dressed, what you wore.
Amena Brown:
And the bulk of the pressure of remaining "pure" was put on girls or women. In order to make sure they were not "temptations" to men. So I was definitely growing up in an environment like that. I sang in the choir at church and at least one or two Sundays of the month, the choir wore black and white. And in my church's case, that meant that women wore black skirts. So I don't remember us being able to wear black pants. I remember it was black skirts, black pantyhose, black shoes, and then you'd wear a white blouse. And there was a lot of conversation believe it or not around what kind of undergarment you should be wearing under your white blouse or on Easter, we would actually dress in all white in the choir. So then it was a discussion among the women in the choir of what undergarments were presentable to wear underneath your white dress.
Amena Brown:
My mom raised me that if you're wearing white, that I should wear black undergarments. Of course, this is before the current time that we're living in you all, where now underwear and undergarments are being made in nude colors that are actually nude for most people that have different shades of nude. But when I was growing up, nude was beige. So that wasn't going to help you if you were brown skin or darker. Whereas, now you have a lot more options. Those weren't there then. You basically had white "beige/nude" or black. And so my mom would always say, if you're wearing white, you should wear black undergarments. That way no one can see your bra or anything through whatever you're wearing. I also want to bring up an old school term that I haven't heard anyone say in a long time, which is a slip.
Amena Brown:
And if you grew up in a church setting and I want to speak particular to you, if you grew up in a Black church setting, then you grew up either wearing a slip at some point in your life or the other women that you were around were wearing slips. Some of you are like, "What is a slip?" A slip is a satiny garment that could be a half slip. I should have had my grandma on to talk about this. A half slip was basically something you wore that was like a satiny material. That was the same length as your skirts or your dress, but it created this extra layer so that if someone were to look at you, they couldn't see the underwear that you were wearing underneath your dress. And there were such things as full slips, which had straps and had the shape for your breast to go and then they went down into the skirt similar to the half slip.
Amena Brown:
And then if you wore just the top part, somehow that was considered to be a camisole. That was not considered to be a half slip, even though technically it was. So these were all garments that I became really familiar with when I was growing up, because in order to be dressed for church and to try to "dress modestly" and all of that, you would wear all these different layers under everything. And did that give me a certain kind of complex about my body? I'm pretty sure it gave all of us this feeling that as girls growing up and then as we became adults as women, this sort of idea of how much of our bodies do we have to hide or disguise in some way.
Amena Brown:
And I do remember it was interesting when I started singing in the choir that a lot of the choir leadership would tell us as women that we should be wearing white slips, we should be wearing white undergarments, bras included. And that was not a usual thing for my mom. So I remember my first Sunday singing in the choir I had on this white kind of rayon blouse. And then I had on, I was young you all, I was probably 12 or 13, my first time singing in the choir. So I had on this rayon blouse, short sleeve button up blouse. And then I had on my little bra, which is probably still very much like a little training bra basically. And then my mom had bought me a black silky or satiny camisole to wear underneath it.
Amena Brown:
And one of the missionaries at the church, because our church had all these different leadership positions. So there were deacons, there were missionaries ministers and elders. And some of you may hear the term missionary and think about people who go and they travel places to share the Christian religion in those communities. And I think that may have been true of some of the missionaries in our church, but I think they were more locally doing some types of community work. That was always my assumption anyways. So one of the missionaries, I didn't know her well at all. I knew her name, but I don't know that we'd ever had a full-fledged conversation. And she came up to me to ask me about if I was wearing a bra under my shirt, after the service had ended that day, she asked me and I said yes, that I was wearing a bra.
Amena Brown:
And I explained to her what I said to you all, that I was wearing a camisole saw and she told me, "You should wear white." This is a wild thing, "So that we know you're wearing under garments." So that was a wild time of life because on the one hand I'm being told as a girl to try to hide my body, to try to hide my breasts, hide my hips, hide my booty, hide everything that could cause me to be sexualized by a boy or a man. And then at the same time I'm being told, it's not just that we want you to hide those things, now we want you to wear a certain kind of slip or top or whatever under there that shows us you're wearing your undergarments.
Amena Brown:
So it was this very strange, disparate message to get. And that sort of gave me weird thoughts about the purpose or the goal of underwear. And I think that taught me growing up, well obviously my undergarments are in some way performative for other people, but very specifically in that environment, they're performative for boys or men. It's either that I need to be worried that what I wear is "tantalizing" to them, or I need to do my best to hide everything so that they won't be tempted or I need to wear something that shows I'm wearing something so that they won't be tempted. Terrible. I do remember by the time I got through high school and got into college, this was around the era of, it was kind of that time of college where maybe I'm trying to think, was I a junior by then? But I don't think so.
Amena Brown:
I think it was maybe my first year or so coming back home from school. I really can't remember all the way full details of this, but what I remember the most is that I was out with one of my best friends, Adrian, and we had gone shopping. I feel like we were later in college at this time. I feel like we'd gotten to the point in college where you're starting to do interviews for internships or summer jobs, things like this. And this is when the store, The Limited was very popular. I might be telling my age to say that store, but shout out to you if you remember this, The Limited was a very popular store. And that was sort of where, when you were in your early twenties, that was where you got your first business attire and wide leg pants were very, very popular. And so I was thinking, man, I need to get some underwear to make, here we go again you all, I need to get some underwear to not show that I'm wearing underwear.
Amena Brown:
So I bought this thong when I was out with Adrian, my first time ever buying that and came home and put the bag in the laundry room. And then I left out to go back and hang out with my friends. And I remember getting home and my mom was like, I walked in the house and she was like, "What you need this for? Who you wearing this for? And I was like, "We just went. Interviews. Panty line." It was such a big deal then for your panty line, not to show. So that was the purpose of wearing a thong was so that you would still "have on underwear", but now it can look like you don't have on underwear because you don't have the panty lines on your booty cheeks. So my mom and I had a whole talk and basically that thong got confiscated and I can't tell you where it's at today.
Amena Brown:
Not only did my mom confiscate that thong, she brought me a pair of some bloomers that she had and she handed me those like, "Here, if you're worried about your panty line wear those." Actually, I'm not going to lie though that I have to give a small shout out to my mom because I'm like, wow, it's that basically the type of underwear I wear now. Anyways, so all that to say, I sort of went away from the thought of cute or sexy underwear at that point and now I had the bloomers, so I didn't really need the thong. I think later, a mentor like figure of mine bought me a couple of thongs when she just helped me get an outfit for an event if I remember right. And so I had thongs because she bought them, but it took me many years before I ever bought my own thong underwear.
Amena Brown:
And I do think we all sort of go through some type of underwear evolution. A part of that obviously is because when we're growing up in our families, our families have a way they purchase things. They have whatever budget it is, so you just are accepting whatever you're given for some of you, those may have been hand me downs in your family, if you weren't the oldest kid and for some of you that may have been particular store that you remember going to, because that's what your family could afford. And then you get to a point where you become an adult yourself, you're now responsible for buying your own underwear. And so I think I was probably in my early to mid twenties when I was starting to buy all this stuff for myself, having my own job and all that and realizing like, "Okay, well, I like to go to Target. That's a pretty easy place. I can go and get Hanes or Fruit of the Loom underwear there.
Amena Brown:
But then they also had their Target brand underwear that were for me and the budget I was on, they were very nice. So I was like, this is great. And then by the time I got into my mid to late twenties, I started to think more about what does a grown ass woman's underwear drawer look like? Because up to that point, my own underwear had been very functional, really. I wasn't as concerned about cuteness or anything. And I feel like I was reading some articles about things that like every woman should have in her wardrobe type articles. And they were talking about how as a grown woman, you should have matching bra and panties sets. I had never bought bra and panties together. Never done that.
Amena Brown:
I would just go to the store and get underwear if I was running out or whatever. And then I don't even know where I was buying my bras for a while. And probably some of my bras, even into my twenties, my mom or my grandma was buying for me for my birthday or Christmas or whatever. So I was like, okay, you're supposed by a matching set together. And that is what sent me to Victoria's Secret. Victoria's Secret was my entry level point into underwear that I thought would be cute. I think I was, first of all, looking to just have cute underwear and cute underwear that matched with the bras that I was buying. I do think by the time I got in my late twenties, I was looking to have sexy underwear. I was not looking to have sexy underwear or cute underwear because anyone was seeing them mind you, because no one was seeing them.
Amena Brown:
But as I was getting older and getting more comfortable in my own skin, I wanted to have some underwear that I liked. And I think as I got into my late twenties, I wanted to have some underwear that made me feel sexy. And so that sent me to Victoria's Secret and the whole concept of getting measured for your bras and underwears. I will talk about bras fully in another episode you all, but getting measured for bras was a very fascinating time. And then you're figuring out what your actual underwear size is, and then going into Victoria's Secret and being like, man, there are a lot of different types of underwear. Victoria's Secret had thongs and bikinis. And they had boy shorts and high leg, high waist. There were a lot more choices there than I was used to experiencing in Target.
Amena Brown:
And I really loved that underwear evolution for me of sort of starting to make the choices for myself, for what I like to have on for what makes me feel good. I got married in my early thirties and like many folks when they get married, I had two separate bridal showers, if I remember right. I had one that was more like the household stuff that people give you. First of all, the time period of getting married for straight people can be very fascinating as far as the traditions there, like somehow the groom just gets to like be out and about somewhere, but you are the one expected to be there for all those casserole dishes like both of you all aren't going to use them. All that stuff is put on the woman in that scenario. And it's just a very wild tradition that we have there, but I had a bridal shower like that, where you're getting all your housewares.
Amena Brown:
That's typically the bridal shower that you invite your mother and your mother-in-law, your grandmother, your aunts, and people like that. That's the one that you invite them to because you don't want your friend to buy you a vibrator and you're opening that in front of your mom and your mother-in-law. And then I had a separate shower that was friends only, that was all the lingerie, all the sexy underwear for everything. And even now that my husband and I have been married over 10 years now, I think the best place for me, of whatever type of sexy underwear I want to have, should still start with what makes me feel sexy. What makes me feel good. So let's talk about where I am with drawers today. And you too think about where you are with your drawers today.
Amena Brown:
For me drawers fall in two main categories: there's period drawers and regular drawers. Let's talk about period drawers for a second. Period drawers typically need to fall in a couple of descriptors. Number one, period drawers tend to be darker color. Because you want your period drawers to be able to handle it if there's a period mishap. I don't play around wearing white or lavender or yellow underwear during my period. I don't play around with that. You just go ahead and stay with underwear that's black, that's navy. You want to just stay in that dark colors vicinity. Also, I know that some people who have periods do this, I know that some people who have periods, they wear cheeky drawers and thongs and things on their periods. I'm not one of those people. When I am on my period, I need drawers that cover both of my booty cheeks.
Amena Brown:
I need full coverage in my situations. I need full coverage. I don't mind if I can pull those draws up over my belly. I really need the comfort. When you're on your period, you have enough to worry about. You don't need to be worried about if your draws are nipping at your booty cheeks or nipping in some other places, you don't want them to nip. You just want to be focused on not doing damage to anyone or anything while you're on your period. So for me, it's comfortable drawers of darker hues, that's what you need. Then you have the larger category of the panties you wear when you're not on your period, the panties you wear for the rest of the month.
Amena Brown:
Under that category can fall quite a few things. You may have some thongs there. You may have some cute panties, you may have some sexy panties in there, you may have panties that don't cause wedgies. Yes. I said it, wedgies. And I want to give a shout out to Black women on Twitter for hipping me to the brand, Soma on this because they so far are the best pair of underwear I've bought. Where you put them on and they just stay on your booty cheeks versus going into the crack. You don't want that. It's a bad experience. I don't like to have to keep tugging on my underwear during the day. I have enough to deal with, I don't need the rest of that. And I think it's good to have all these different categories of underwear, but I'm going to tell you what I've been talking with my girlfriends about that led to this episode.
Amena Brown:
I was talking to them about, this is a conversation that's about underwear, which then is a conversation about bodies. And is a conversation even about our relationship to our bodies, to our clothing, to what size we think we should be to what we think we should be wearing. And in my life, I'm trying to really unlearn a lot of those shoulds. And so I was telling some girlfriends recently I have a size of underwear that is my typical size. Lately, I've started buying a size up or two sizes up from my underwear size. And I'll tell you why. Number one, I have accepted like, many of you have this experience too, that I'm just going to have times where my weight might fluctuate. Sometimes that may be like a hormonal thing. It may medication I'm taking. It may just be that my body is out here living her best life. She's surviving. She thriving, she doing whatever she can do for herself.
Amena Brown:
But I have decided that I'm not going to suffer underwear that pinches me in places that I don't want to be pinched. And so if it brings me comfort to buy some underwear that's two sizes above the size that I might normally buy, what would stop me from doing that? It would be hard for me to do that if I have in my mind, the size that I think I should wear or the type of underwear that I think I should be in. And when you start to getting rid of those shoulds and really get down to being able to think about what would make me feel good? What would make me feel comfortable? I think also when we're thinking about our bodies and our relationship to clothing, whether we're talking about our undergarments, which is clothing, that a lot of people don't see us in, or whether we're talking about the stuff that we wear that people would see us in, when we're out for a walk out in the store or out with our friends or whatever.
Amena Brown:
I think that it also becomes this conversation to have of accepting the body that I'm in. And instead of wearing things that make me feel like now this pair of underwear is unaccommodating for me, we all have different shape, different size, different things that make us feel good. And I don't want to have to wear underwear that is not going to accommodate for my full booty over here. I want underwear that's going to accommodate for my belly, for the cornbread that I've eaten, that I loved for the biscuits I've had. You know what I mean? And I think that there is some importance to, instead of wearing underwear that makes us feel bad about our bodies or bad about ourselves. Finding ways, even for the undergarments that maybe a few people see, or maybe you only see that it's important for you to feel good in those underwear that you wear.
Amena Brown:
So if the "normal or typical" underwear brand or underwear sizing that you buy doesn't accommodate for your hips or your belly or your booty or whatever, find the underwear that does so that you can be whatever you want to be in your underwear. So you can be comfortable, so you can be sexy, so you can be sporty. So that's been a really good tip for me so far is whenever I place an order, sometimes I do this for clothing too. But if I order some underwear to order a size up, order two sizes up if I want. Maybe for you need to order a size down or you need to order three or four sizes up. You want to have a variety of sizes. So as your weight may fluctuate, you have the clothing that welcomes the body you're in.
Amena Brown:
I think that is what's most important. And yes, it is a priority for me that my underwear covers both of my booty cheeks. It is an important thing that I like. And I am making that a top of the list in my underwear request. So ask yourself this, what kind of underwear makes you feel sexy? What kind of underwear makes you feel beautiful? What kind of underwear makes you feel comfortable? What kind of underwear can you find that makes room for your body right now as your body is? I love to think of that. I thought a lot about the word comfortable lately. In my previous sessions with my counselor, she has brought up the word comfort a lot. She has asked me to ponder what is something that would bring you comfort right now? What are the spaces you go in that bring you comfort? Who are the people that bring you comfort when you spend time with them or talk to them?
Amena Brown:
And I think the word comfortable has gotten a bad rap, particularly in the scope of underwear. When I was growing up, we called comfortable underwear, granny panties. First of all, as if grannies don't wear sexy panties too, if they want. But also we were just sort of making it seem like at some point in your life, you would sort of age out of being concerned about whatever. And then to many of us, we were being taught this implicit lesson, that to look for comfort was bad, that as women, it's our job to look good and wear this type of shoes and this type of outfit and this type of underwear, because that's what "women are supposed to do" which means women are just supposed to be uncomfortable all the time. And that just isn't true.
Amena Brown:
And thankfully, things have changed a lot since I was growing up. There are more colors of underwear that actually represent people who have my type of skin tone. There are more types of underwear for all sorts of bodies, and we've still got a long way to go. We've got a long way to go so that any body that anyone has, can be not only well represented in what we see in the media, in fashion, but also that the type of underwear that anybody wants and loves to have, can actually be available to them, however, their body is shaped, whatever their size, whatever their height, whatever their skin tone, they've been a lot of improvements and we've got a long way to go. In the meantime time, think about you, get you some underwear that make you feel good. Get you some underwear if you like this like me, that covers both of your booty cheeks. See you all in the living room next time.
Amena Brown:
HER With Amena Brown is produced by Matt Owen for Sol Graffiti Productions as a part of the Seneca Women Podcast Network in partnership with iHeartRadio. Thanks for listening, and don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast.