Amena Brown:
Hey y'all. Welcome back to this week's episode of Her with Amena Brown. And ooh, we are fully into the fall fall right now. Y'all know I live in the south so by the time some of y'all ... Some of Y'all already got snow like a few weeks ago and we're just now like ooh, it's chilly outside. But let me tell you a question that's on my mind right now as I am going into this seasonal transition. Okay, so initially when the pandemic began and we were all quarantined for, I don't know, the five days that we were all quarantined, I was like okay, I need to just decide on some outfit things that I just wear at my house. And basically I've been able to just cast aside the clothing that I don't really enjoy wearing but I wore because I was outside and I was going to see other people. So I still to this day, I think maybe I've only worn a pair of jeans once in this whole time since the pandemic tipped in the States. My main end of spring into summer attire was mostly like I have some biker shorts, I have leggings, I have some very comfortable sort of harem like pants that I bought from H&M a few years ago. And I basically just swapped those out with various T-shirts.
Amena Brown:
And of course there are no bras involved. Now, now, now, I will say because I am at the bust size I am at, when I would be out in the public seeing people, and especially when I was doing event work and stuff like that, that type of thing for my bust size requires an underwire bra. And I'm going to tell you that I can probably count ... It's definitely less than 10 times I've worn and underwire bra since the pandemic started. Now, one thing I have gotten into is a little miracle called bralettes. Okay. I've gotten into that. Now, there's only certain brands that provide a bralette for those of us who are towards the larger spectrum of bust size. But I have gotten involved in some these brands. I have gotten into this Fenty situation. Shout out to Rihanna who I'm sure is listening to this podcast. And Fenty has provided me some bralettes that give me the vibes of a bra. That's really all I want in my life. I don't want the actual full bra, I just want the vibes and that's basically what Fenty is giving me.
Amena Brown:
But now it is colder and I realized that I have not beefed up properly what I'm going be wearing inside. I'm going tell y'all a truth. There was one year that things went really bad for me towards the end the year. I want to say this was like the end of 2017 into 2018. And things were going so badly for me that I spent most of November and December that year ordering pajamas. So because of that I have a nice selection of pajamas and in particular pajamas that you can wear when it's getting cold outside. I've got like some doughnut pajamas, I've got two sets of Christmas pajamas. A girl was busy. A girl was busy being very sad and very depressed but being determined to be wearing comfortable clothes while feeling those feelings. Okay. Now I feel like ... I saw a lot articles out there, different style gurus that were like, don't just stick to your leggings now that it's fall. Here are some trends you can do. And I was like wow, I'm not going to do any of that. So what I'm trying to do y'all is just transition my biker short legging life into a sweatsuit life. That's the life that I'm trying to live but I realized as I looked through my fall, winter clothing, I'm really not prepared.
Amena Brown:
So I have put out there to some of you on social media. You have given me some suggestions to look into. So I'm going to look into that and I'm going to report back to y'all. But I want you to tell me, what are you doing? Those of you that are still working from home or are still pretty much quarantined. There's a certain section of us that are still pretty much quarantined all this time. So those of you that are just at home a lot or even if you do have to go out and work and do your things, when you get home, what is your pandemic attire? What are the pieces of clothing that you've just decided pandemic me doesn't do that anymore? Let's discuss.
Amena Brown:
I'm trying out a new segment that I think I'm going to make something of a regular appearance here on the podcast and this segment is called, Things Nobody Told Me About. And for today's edition of things nobody told me about, I want to talk about transvaginal ultrasounds. And I know, I know, maybe you're in your car. Maybe you're at work listening to this and you're like, "Wait a minute, wow, whoa, was not expecting that." But, is that a thing anybody told you about? Because nobody discussed that with me and I want to talk about a couple of things. Number one, I want to talk about the fact that just in general, ultrasounds, my only exposure to that was on television. And typically when you see ultrasounds on television, ultrasounds are happening to a pregnant lady and it's like the tube of whatever stuff they put on the tummy, they rub whatever the little thing is on there. And that's how that goes. I want to tell you that that is not the only type of ultrasound that can happen to you and these ultrasounds happen to people who are not pregnant. And I want to talk about this because I feel like this is something somebody should have discussed with us.
Amena Brown:
First of all, I'm going to tell you that it actually as a term is very misleading. I mean, when you hear a term like transvaginal, doesn't it sound like you're taking a long journey across the vagina? You know what I'm saying? It sounds like you are getting in a boat. You're getting in some sort of vehicle and now you are taking a cross vagina road trip. It just gives me the like around the uterus in 180 days sort of vibes. So even the transvaginal part sort of makes me feel like I should be taking a trip. But something is taking a trip in a part of my body that is not very enjoyable for me. Also, want to talk about when you have a transvaginal ultrasound, those of you that have had one, you understand me right now. You understand the awkward things. Because sometimes this is a part of your GYN appointment. They've got to check on some things. And somehow in all these years of scientific advancement, this is the only option we have of being able to get information. I just don't understand that. I feel like there should be a lot more options, a lot more scientific advancements for us.
Amena Brown:
I also want to discuss what happens when you have to have a transvaginal ultrasound and the amount of awkward conversations that you might be a part of as a result. And I don't know. Sometimes as I'm telling y'all this I'm just wondering if there are times that I am having awkward conversation but it actually doesn't feel that awkward to me. Because when I think about it, kind of depends on the person I guess but sometimes I don't know. There are some situations where maybe I feel more comfortable than I should. And I don't know what it is about having to have these appointments but I'm just going to tell you that I've had some awkward conversations. I feel like in a way though they're conversations that other people would think are awkward. Not necessarily conversations that I felt super awkward to have in the moment. Like one time I had an appointment and had to have a transvaginal ultrasound and the sonographer came in to facilitate said ultrasound and while she was doing the ultrasound we had a nice conversation about this guy she was dating and we were basically talking about her definition of date being different from his definition of date. And he planned this whole date for her but it was like outside fishing. That was the date he wanted them to have.
Amena Brown:
So then they went and had that date and he had in his mind, like oh after we go and have this outdoorsy experience we will then go to this nice restaurant afterwards. And she was like, "I appreciate him planning the date but nothing about going fishing is romantic to me. I would rather skip the fishing part, skip the part where we were outside and sweaty and smelly and just skip that and go right to the restaurant." And I never really had that much conversation with her until that very moment and we talked about that and just how people have different definitions of dating and how we can improve upon communication. And right by the time we got to that point, ultrasound was over. So what am I saying to you? I'm just saying that somebody should have told us about transvaginal ultrasounds. Somebody should have told us that it is not a road trip across your vagina for fun. It's not that. Somebody should have told us it is not The Amazing Race but in your fallopian tubes. It's not that. Somebody should have told us that someday you're going to be grown lady and you will go into the doctor and it's not going to be like on television. They're going to take a wand and put that someplace that's very precious and private to you.
Amena Brown:
And then what else is going to happen? They're going to take pictures while they're in there. Yo. Okay. Also, what does this mean for you? Listen. If you have to have an appointment where you have to have a transvaginal ultrasound, here are a couple of things you can do to assist yourself in trying to be at peace as much as possible. Number one, just try to be present with your uterus. Try to be present there. If you feel a certain type of way, imagine how your uterus feels. Imagine how your vagina feels. Try to give some room and space in your emotions for the feelings of your uterus. Try to be present there. Another thing you can try is maybe think about if your vagina or your uterus has a theme song and maybe during the time of your appointment you can sing that song. Maybe that will also bring some peace to your nether regions. Hey, I'm also going to tell you, you know what? Sometimes you might need to go ahead and just get involved in a little awkward conversation. Maybe it won't be as awkward as you thought.
Amena Brown:
I also learned in another appointment where I had a transvaginal ultrasound, I learned about painting inside of a house. Had a lot of conversations about how that works. Had a lot of conversation about how you decide between someone else painting the inside of your house or you deciding to DIY. Listen, sometimes you go ahead and have that conversation and yes, maybe you're having an awkward moment because this is somebody that's got a wand up your nether regions. However, another thing that could be happening is you could learn a little something. All in all, if you have to have a transvaginal ultrasound or any type of situation at the doctor's office that's going be poking into your vagina, do what you need to do to take care of yourself. Give yourself opportunities to do your deep breathing beforehand, decompress afterwards. Do whatever you can. But if this is your first time hearing about this, that's why we have this segment. Because transvaginal ultrasounds, that's a thing that nobody told me about.
Amena Brown:
So this is your time to share with me, what are some things that nobody told you about that you wished they would have told you about? And I would love for you to share this with me. You can get in my DMs on Instagram or Twitter. You can tweet me directly. You can use the hashtag #HerWithAmena or you can use the hashtag #AskAmena. I would love to hear your thoughts about this. What are the things that you wish somebody would have told you?
Amena Brown:
In the before times I would have celebrated homecoming a couple of weeks ago at my alma mater, Spelman College. Two of my roommates from school and I had developed this tradition of eating soul food and tailgating together. We even stopped by our old dorm rooms and met the students who lived there now. In this episode for the Her archives, Candace Benbow and I discuss Beyoncé's homage to the HBCU homecoming from her Netflix special and album Homecoming. Listen in as Candace and I talk all things Beyoncé and why HBCUs are so important.
Amena Brown:
I want to welcome creator of The Lemonade Syllabus, creator of Red Lip Theology, the movement and the podcast, founder of Zion Hill Media Group and the LouiseMarie Foundation, theologian, speaker, essayist and creative, I want to welcome to Her with Amena Brown, Candice Benbow.
Candice Benbow:
Hey.
Amena Brown:
Y'all don't even understand.
Candice Benbow:
Thank you.
Amena Brown:
Y'all don't understand. This is great. You need to feel great. If you're in your car listening, wherever you are listening, you need to feel super great right now. Candice, thank you so much for joining me.
Candice Benbow:
Oh my goodness. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. I'm so excited.
Amena Brown:
So first of all, I'm trying to think how I got connected to you initially. I know I connected to you online Candice but I can't remember what it was that prompted me to follow you. And it may have been around the time that you were creating The Lemonade Syllabus because every Black woman I know was like, send your things to Candace.
Candice Benbow:
When I tell you people had my ... My cellphone number was being passed around. I was getting text messages from people. I was like, "Who are you?" They're like, "You don't know me but I want you to put my suggestions in The Lemonade Syllabus." So yeah. So that was a wonderful time.
Amena Brown:
Oh my gosh. I was like who is this amazing woman doing the lord's work? I was just like, this is God's work that Candice is doing because when Lemonade came out it just had not just so many layers as a creative piece, but so many layers that were just speaking to Black women, to our history, paying homage to all of this other art Black women had released before and books. It was just all the Toni Morrison and Daughters of the Dust and I was just like how can I ... I was like, how will I process this? And then I was like uh, Candice has fixed this for all of us. We have a way to process this and refer to all of the different resources and just encouraging people to enjoy Lemonade and also reflect back on the things that inspired it so shout out to that Candice. Thank you for doing that work.
Candice Benbow:
Thank you. Thank you. It is to date one of the things that I am the most proud of. One of the beautiful things about Lemonade was that I feel like we had grown up with Beyoncé and this made her grown. And I hate the way that heartbreak and kind of like this emotional sadness and trauma that we experience when we love people, I hate how that kind of grows us up in ways. And so this experience for us is rooted in a legacy of experiences. That this iconic work that I don't even think that we just fully scratched the surface on what Lemonade really is, that this iconic work is a daughter of all of these other works. And that the hope is and the belief is that we'll be able to years from now build on works. That like whenever we do like a 10th anniversary, 15th anniversary, there'll be so many more books that we get to add, and works of art and pieces of art that we get to add to the reader, the collection to continue to show the ways that Black women lean into their own flourishing and their own survival.
Amena Brown:
I'm just here for everything about that. I'm here for the way that you brought up the word legacy there. That there are all these Black women before this moment that were making things that inspired an artist like Beyoncé to make the things she made and in the times she's made this that more Black women to come will make these things that need to be included in the conversation. I want to ask you ... Because we have to ... I feel like before we can go into an in depth conversation about this we have to establish where we both are on the levels on fandom related to Beyoncé, so I just want us to do a little check in right here.
Candice Benbow:
Right.
Amena Brown:
So what was your journey regarding being a fan of Beyoncé? Would you have looked at from the beginning, Destiny's Child, you were always a fan? You've always been into every album that she made or was there some point where you were like okay, wants to take a second listen to this and take these things seriously?
Candice Benbow:
I was always a fan of Destiny's Child. I remember when it was the original group. And I felt like Destiny's Child ... Destiny's Child was my SWV. It was my Xscape. All of these groups that my cousins listened to and that played on the oldies radio at that point that my mom let me listen to, I felt like I finally had that group. But when they went through that horrible shakeup where two of them got replaced, I really thought that it was over for them until Survivor. And when it came out that Beyoncé wrote Survivor after reading people's comments and the bloggers and news media saying that Destiny's Child was done ... When she wrote Survivor I was like yeah, something's different about her. I loved the first album. I think that if you loved Destiny's Child, you loved whatever she put out. But I don't think it was until B'Day that we really was like, oh she's not a game at all.
Amena Brown:
That part.
Candice Benbow:
It was that moment where you were like, okay so I'm a fan and I don't even really know who I'm a fan of. It's that moment where you were looking like, she is other worldly and I think that we began to see that with B'Day. That she was this force that you were like, where did she come from? Who are her people? It was just amazing. And so from that point forward, particularly when you're thinking about college and the ways that you come of age, my coming of age really happened in undergrad and those years immediately following undergrad and she was making music at that time. And so she really soundtracked for me and for many others my journey into adulthood and into womanhood. And I was always from the moment of B'Day, that was when I was like, I will never miss a concert that she's in. And she actually was the person who I begun to pay more so that I could be closer to the stage. She was that person. And then I also began to critique other concerts based off of hers. If you've never been to a Bey show, you don't know ... What you got at Homecoming is really what happens. Like for two hours plus she is giving you everything. High energy. All of the songs.
Candice Benbow:
And I just remember saying, if you can't do that then I don't want to see or hear anything that you got to say or sing. Before the surprise album I really just stanned her. I was a stan. As like this dope musical genius who was putting out songs that really reckoned with who I was and what I needed to listen to. And it was at the moment of the surprise album that I humanized her and she became ... I say this without any qualms. Through her music, Bey is one of my spiritual teachers. She has given me permission to lean into the truth of who I am and often we don't see entertainers in that light.
Candice Benbow:
Particularly Black women. And then the fact that she's pretty. She's pretty, she's a Black woman, she's making music that is consumed on a global international scale. She can't be smart right? She can't make conscious decisions with the music and with the art to push her listeners, to push her fans to think differently about themselves and the world around them. And the surprise album for me was the moment where I was like okay, she unlocked an affirmation in me of who I am sexually, who I am as a woman and embracing all of those things. And from every project since I've approached it not as just a body of music and not as just a body of art, but what is she offering me that will help me best understand myself.
Amena Brown:
Yes. Yes. Now especially, I feel super late to the whole Beyoncé party. I remember Destiny's Child and I enjoyed some of their songs. In particular I do want to give some honorable mention to Bugaboo, which is probably my favorite Destiny's Child song of all time. And I don't care that it's full of verses of things that now don't make any sense to most people. Like I was just talking to some of my girlfriends about this. That verse when she's like, you make me want to throw my pager out the window. Tell MCI to cut the phone cord. Break my lease so I can move.
Candice Benbow:
Cut the phone cord.
Amena Brown:
Because you're a bugaboo.
Candice Benbow:
Because you're a bugaboo.
Amena Brown:
I was just like thank you. She brought up MCI in one of these verses and I was just like, I don't care what y'all say, I want the DJ to drop that song one good time for me on the dance floor. That was like my favorite Destiny's Child song. But I remember my freshman year roommate had that Destiny's Child poster up on her side of the room and I didn't feel that way about Destiny's Child at the time. So then when Beyoncé's solo stuff came out, I remember seeing that music video for Crazy in Love and I was like, I see that we are growing up today. I see that things are growing up with us Beyoncé and I was in support of it but I still wasn't at the point where I was like anytime an album of hers comes out, I have to buy it. So I didn't buy that one. And I think the first album of hers that I bought ... And I was just thinking about this before we started recording today, was I Am Sasha Fierce. And-
Candice Benbow:
And that's the Hive's least favorite album.
Amena Brown:
I know for the Beyhive members I'm walking in on some thin ice out here. But it's so crazy what you were saying about how her music sort of became this soundtrack of your own development as a woman in so many ways. Because I remember being in an airport, I think it was July Fourth week. I was flying back from some gig I had performed at. And I was listening to that I Am Sasha Fierce and got to Halo and realized I was in love with this man. I realized I was head over heels in love with him listening to that. And simultaneously Candice, realizing and there is no future for us. Like there's nothing good that's going to come from being with him and you are head over heels in love with him. That was my moment of being like this woman is not just making music that jams but something about me listening to it is also impacting how I view myself. That album with the If I Were a Boy ... There were just some dynamics inside of the songs there.
Amena Brown:
So then after that I was like, well first of all now I got to go back and get all these albums I've done missed. And after that, I'm like okay, well now I got to checkout all these records. And like you, when the self titled dropped she was on some like, it's December here y'all are, enjoy this. That also impacted me because I was like, I see that Beyoncé has come into her sexual feelings as a woman and I also am in my sexual feelings and I just ... I was like two years into being married to my husband. I was like yes, I've been drinking, yes.
Candice Benbow:
Yes. I get filthy when that liquor get into me.
Amena Brown:
Oh my gosh.
Candice Benbow:
Come on Bey.
Amena Brown:
I was into everything.
Candice Benbow:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
Okay so then when Lemonade came out ... Candice knows me enough to know that I don't have no sense. So I was watching Lemonade and the first scene when it's her sitting in front of the red ... It's like a red curtain and she's in front of a stage and she's singing and I'm like, oh lord, somebody in Beyoncé's life done had their heart broke and she's writing these songs just to help them. And then by the time it got to like the second or third song I was like, ooh Jay, what you do? Why you do that? Then by the time I got to like the fourth or fifth song I was like, is this about Jay or America? What is happening?
Candice Benbow:
Wow. Yeah, yeah.
Amena Brown:
You know?
Candice Benbow:
Right. Yeah. It gave you all of that.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. So that was kind of like my Beyoncé journey but now I'm on board. I have been to see her live twice. I went to see her the first time in Miami when she and Jay first did the On The Run Tour. And like you ... One of my girlfriends was turning 40. We paid that money for those floor seats. I have never regretted a dollar of that money. Never.
Candice Benbow:
Girl. You don't.
Amena Brown:
Never.
Candice Benbow:
You don't.
Amena Brown:
I don't regret one dollar I spent. Went to the Lemonade tour in Atlanta. So you know it was like the national Black girl meeting. I was like oh my gosh. It's so many Black women wearing they African clothes. Everybody was just like, whatever your foolishness is, I'm not here for it. That was like the vibe through the whole place. So it's interesting to me just when we talk about artists and music in general but I think in particular when we talk about artists who are Black women and how their music also is writing our story too. Even as they're creating this work. And I never thought I would feel that way about Beyoncé because India Arie was kind of that for me. Every album of hers I'd be like, how she know? How she know?
Candice Benbow:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
I never thought I'd feel that way about someone who could also sort of, like you said, make pop music. Make this music that could go on your top 40. Is also on your adult contemporary. Is also on your hip hop station. An artist that makes that music, I never thought I would just love her as much as do. So Beyoncé's Homecoming, how did you watch it the first time? Did you watch it just by yourself? Did you watch it right when it came out? What did you do that first time?
Candice Benbow:
I watched it when it was a Coachella performance. Coachella as a music festival streamed it the first weekend and so everyone knew that she was performing. Because it was pacific time I think we were up at like 12:00, 1:00 in the morning watching this YouTube live stream. And I was live tweeting it. And I was in complete and total awe. Because one, I'm a graduate of a historically black college and university so the first seconds where you hear the drums, you instantly know what's happening. And so I was mesmerized because it took me back to undergrad and then it took it back to my childhood because my mom graduated from a Historically Black College and University that was in our hometown and so I grew up going to their homecoming before I went to college. So it invoked every feeling of nostalgia. But then also you knew that this was the fact that we were getting that caliber of show at a festival that really isn't catered to Black folk. That she chose in that moment to make her performance explicitly Black was just profound. And so for a year we've been feasting off of these YouTube clips that people ... Video. Grainy video from that day until when they announced that there was going to be the Homecoming film.
Candice Benbow:
And I actually watched it by myself because the funny part was I had a flight that day. That morning. And I stayed up. I was like well, I'm going be up anyway because it was dropping on Netflix at three in the morning. And everybody went to sleep because there were some of us that went to sleep early because we knew we were going to be up at three to watch it and I was one of them. And so my friends and I, we were all in a side group chat when we were up. But to watch it, one, you were watching this performance again and just the clarity and color and high def that you didn't see the first time. But then infused with all of the behind the scenes pieces. It really took my breath away because, again, you knew that Homecoming was this moment. I feel like Beyoncé doesn't create just art anymore. She creates these cultural moments that are like what in the ... You know what I'm saying? That are just like oh my god. And there was this space that meant you have this moment where you were seeing that Homecoming for her meant something completely different and something much more than it was for Homecoming for us.
Candice Benbow:
That it was her reintroducing herself to herself. That after this extremely difficult pregnancy and this struggle to get back to her body and herself, that this was the celebration of what it meant to accomplish and achieve something. And Homecoming made the most sense because Homecoming is this space where you get to be around the people who know you the best. There's this notion that we say all the time that family isn't always the family that you're born into. That family gets to be the family that you choose. And she said as much about how everybody who took a part of Homecoming for her became like her family. But there's something about Homecoming and going back to school, going back to your undergrad, your alma mater and being around the people who you consider to be the family that you chose, who can tell you the truth about yourself and inspire you to be your best self. That made it all the more special to know that this was also about her acknowledging that the Beyoncé that we've even know is not necessarily the woman that she is anymore. You know what I'm saying?
Candice Benbow:
And how powerful is that to admit. She was like, "I'm not even trying to be who I used to be. I'm not even trying to be who I was anymore. I'm something completely new and different and even more powerful." That I think I marvel at her ability to tell the truth even as costly as it was on her body and as taxing as it was to create what she did for not only us, but for herself.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. When I saw that the film and album were going to be called Homecoming, that just had me in my feelings so bad because just seeing that word and its cultural implications to me having also attended a historically Black college. And living in the DC area when I was a little girl my mom was a nurse in the Army. She was stationed at Walter Reed. So I remember going to like Hampton and Howard homecomings. Even as a little girl there's so many black women I've talked to since the album and film have been out that have talked about even if ... Whether or not they attended a historically Black college or university themselves that had childhood memories of going to homecoming at other HBCUs which I thought was just ... It was just fascinating to hear that. Because I'm like I remember going to Howard's homecoming when they were playing Hampton which meant it just felt like double homecoming.
Candice Benbow:
It did.
Amena Brown:
Because all the Hampton people came in town. It felt like the scene in the film when one of the dancers or musicians was saying, Homecoming was our Coachella. It was a festival. And I remember being like okay, I came to a game that also had food vendors, where there were also dance and step performances and music performances. All of that encompassed in one experience, right?
Candice Benbow:
In one experience. A fashion show, a family reunion. It was just all of these things happening at one time that all make sense. That all work together to just like ... You get to relive for a weekend. For 48 hours, no more than 72, that you get to relive this time that one, if you went there you get to relive these years and celebrate the times that really grew you up. And if you didn't go there but you are a part of the community, then you get to experience every year just getting back with your people and having fun and just enjoying where life has taken all of us. That at least we can get back together for a few days to just kick it and have fun.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. I actually went to homecoming this past fall. And I went with two of my roommates from school. My roommate from my freshman year and my roommate from my sophomore year. And one of the things ... And I haven't been back to homecoming in a while but one of the things that I really just loved and almost wanted to feel teary about because I don't know what it is about being in your 30s, I have a lot of tears available. So I was just feeling my feelings because I'm out here seeing all of the generations of homecoming. I graduated from college in 2002, so there's sort of like an era of people within that five to 10 years that had a similar experience. Some of those buildings were the same or some of the people who may have been on faculty or administration were the same during your time of school. But then there might be people there who graduated 20 years before you and you can tell that they all had a certain experience. The way their tents were set up at homecoming or the music they had playing from their DJ that they brought to their tent where they were grilling.
Amena Brown:
And getting to see even some of the women who graduated in the '60s or the '70s and how the DJ would kind of hit those different eras of time and you would see them there. And of course I looked at my girlfriends and I said, "Y'all know that that's going be us in 20 years dancing to Juvenile. Because that's going to be our little ... They had Brick House and that Juvenile is going be us and I hope my hips will still" ...
Candice Benbow:
That's ours. Right.
Amena Brown:
Want my hips to still be able to do those things. My hips and my knees. Speaking of knees, that's one of the comments that I need to discuss about Beyoncé's Homecoming. I decided to have a Black girl watch party. I really am terrible at taking pictures Candice. I really should have gotten a good picture so that I could have #RedLipRevival because the film coming out that Wednesday before Easter ... Well, I ended up having my Black girl watch party on Good Friday. And I was like people ... I was like, feel your feelings. This is what we're doing. Come to the house. We ate our little food. Everybody brought different little Homecoming inspired snacks.
Candice Benbow:
Yeah, that sounds dope.
Amena Brown:
And you would be so proud Candice, I did a lemonade bar.
Candice Benbow:
Oh my goodness.
Amena Brown:
So we had lemonade girl and then we cut up limes and lemons and strawberries and basil and mint so each woman could doctor up her lemonade as she felt she wanted to.
Candice Benbow:
I'm feeling that.
Amena Brown:
So we had so much fun. But one of the things we talked about no lie, is ... At least one person made this comment one time. All of us said it at least once, "These dancers' knees girl." What kind of ... Was Beyoncé also offering like physical therapy because ... Have I reached past the point that my knees are ever going to do that?
Candice Benbow:
Yes. These are like 18, 19, early 20 year olds that ... And even she told us ... She was like, what she did to get in shape, she was like, I would never push myself that far again. The dropping. The popping up that quickly. I just was like, I don't think I ever could have done that but I remember when it was done.
Amena Brown:
Maybe when I was eight. I think my knees could have done that.
Candice Benbow:
I think it was like maybe six, seven. That was about it. And I think even when you're talking about rehearsing for eight, nine months straight, you're talking about a commitment to just this kind of precision that again, I think it went beyond them saying like oh, we're doing this with Beyoncé to, this is something major and this is something important and we got to really step up and do our part to ensure that it's done well. I felt like everybody from dancers to musicians knew that this was something special and it wasn't just oh, when I look back I'll get to say I danced with Beyoncé, but that when I look back I got to say that I was a part of a cultural phenomenon and a moment that ... I feel like the same way that A Different World was formational for us, I think that these kids will be able to watch Homecoming and know that Beyoncé did this in light of what happens at HBCUs and then to hear her financial commitment HBCUs. And I think it's going to attract them in ways in the same kind of way that for many of our generation, we watched A Different World and was like, I want that experience.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. Yeah. Just getting to see yourself reflected or maybe in a way when I think about A Different World I mean to see what I thought I could be or what I thought I could become in my future.
Candice Benbow:
Exactly. Exactly.
Amena Brown:
Like getting to see that in those characters and think oh man, I want to know what that's like. I want to know what that life is. So the thought ... And I do want to give a special shout out to YSB Magazine. And I know it's only going be like 10 people listening that's going remember YSB. But I want to give a shout out to Young Sisters and Brothers Magazine because during the time that A Different Word was on I had a subscription to that magazine. And they would have an issue every year that was like their HBCU issue. And I remember taking the pages out when it would have like the top 10 HBCUs in the country. And I remember putting that up on my wall like this is going to be me. And just how a piece of art could give you a glimpse of how you want to move forward in your life or what you could see your future becoming.
Candice Benbow:
There was boundless potential and inherent possibility in remaining true to your Blackness from day one. Because the truth is is that so many of us had often heard ... Because we are a part of the generation that begun to hear about the benefit of going elsewhere other than HBCUs. So like for my mom's generation it was HBCU and that was it. That was where the best and the brightest went. And the generations prior. And then as more minority scholarships and minority presence grants came, and then this conversation of ... And I hated it. And I know you probably heard it in school too that a Black college experience doesn't give you the "real world experience" because ... The foolishness that they said to discount and to discredit our time there that it wasn't just about going to a Black school for entertainment or for the social aspect, but that we can really look and say that we had classmates who really left and changed the world. Whether they were doctors or attorneys or engineers or people like us who are leaning into creative spaces to create content that heals and that inspires, a lot of us got the training, a lot of us developed the courage, a lot of us had our voices and our talents nurtured in HBCU spaces.
Candice Benbow:
And it continues to be for me this beautiful possibility that kids will be able to see these students that got to participate with Beyoncé and they get to see the names of the Black colleges that flashed up in Homecoming and then get to see and say like okay, what are they offering there? Or get connected to us and certain ways and then say, that's the kind of experience that I want. I think again about the ways that she doesn't just create music anymore. She's somebody who has taken her healing seriously. She's somebody who takes her art seriously and knows that a project, a song, an album, a concert, an experience can do several different things at one time. And that she's been blessed with this amazing platform to do several different things at once.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. It's like I watched the film several times and probably with a different lens in certain ways each time or in different moments. Like as a stage performer I'm looking at that and thinking ... And I thought the same way when I went to see Beyoncé live. Just like, this is a solid two hours of content and there wasn't one time that I was like, I got to go. I got to look at my phone. I'm memorized for almost two hours watching this. And as a stage performer thinking okay, based on the work I have right now, maybe I got a solid hour that I feel like ... And really if I were to really whittle it down to the strongest performance I have is probably a solid 45 minutes really. If it were to just be as tight and as great as it could be, it's 45 minutes. And thinking I can't imagine getting to the point where I have enough excellent work to fill almost two hours and then I also appreciated the multi generational approach that she took to your point.
Candice Benbow:
Right.
Amena Brown:
I felt like the layers of some of the songs that she came in and out of ... It was like her songs but then she might also go in there and she hit that Hay in the Middle of the Barn and I was like, really? We just want to ... Right here in the ... Okay. Yes. Yes.
Candice Benbow:
And it fit. And it worked.
Amena Brown:
Oh my gosh.
Candice Benbow:
It worked.
Amena Brown:
And then there were some other songs that I was like, I don't even know what this is.
Candice Benbow:
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Amena Brown:
And I love it. I just don't know what it is so that means there's a whole other group of people watching her flip into that song that are like yes, that's my stuff. That belongs to us. That belongs to our generation. I felt like you could have watched that in a multi generational room and everybody felt included. And that's amazing that an artist can do that in a performance.
Candice Benbow:
It's something about longevity that makes you think very differently about audience. So one of the things that even as I've been thinking about as a creative when you're talking about legacy, when you're talking about longevity and purpose, that means that people beyond what you just like consume you. And that here it is that I want to do a homecoming experience, I can't just do a homecoming experience that is steeped in just what I've done. So when I was in TSU we weren't swag surfing. That became something ... I graduated in '04. Swag surfing became something that came after me. So the times that she's talking about where she would go to homecoming, they weren't swag surfing either. But that is a key part of HBCU experience and culture now. That song right, Hay in the Middle of the Barn. I think all of our bands play that at this point. But again, it is to ... It acknowledges that I am not just a voyeur into your experience but I consume it and I respect it and I appreciate it. And that I'm not trying to be one of these young kids. At 37 Beyoncé is really hitting auntie status for a lot of them.
Candice Benbow:
When you think about the young late teens and early 20 in college, she's old enough to be an auntie or a much older sister. And she doesn't shy away from that. And I think that that is what sets her apart from a lot of entertainers who feel like they have to chase the sound, who feel like they have to chase a certain look, or who feel like they have to chase a certain experience. With here you're getting like look ... What'd she say in there? I got to go home and [inaudible 00:50:35]. I am grown. I got a husband. I got all of these kids. I need sleep. I think that when you become very clear about who you are, it radiates in everything that you do that I can honor you and I can celebrate you and not feel like I'm trying to be like you.
Amena Brown:
Yes. Oh, yes. And I want to talk also about what your thoughts were having seen the full Coachella performance and then getting to see it again here in this film but with much better quality and everything. I remember watching somebody ... Bless their hearts whoever did it. Somebody posted the full performance on some website that I can't even remember and I was watching it on there. It was grainy and I was like who cares? I'm excited to see this.
Candice Benbow:
Exactly. Exactly.
Amena Brown:
But getting to see it in its full HD quality ... But I want to ask you what your thoughts were seeing these behind the scenes pieces now that were added into the show you'd seen. Because that added so many layers for me as well. Because then it was like, we're getting to see not just Beyoncé the performing artist but we're also seeing Beyoncé the director and Beyoncé the producer and Beyoncé the business woman. And I think even if I were to look at just me perceiving her from the outside, how she's evolved to be able to show us certain vulnerable parts of who she is. I feel like me entering the game, sorry beehive, at what y'all probably feel like is the worst album to walk in on but it did a lot of things for my personal life. So me walking in on I Am Sasha Fierce in an era of Beyoncé's life where she sort of had this alter ego to hide behind. And it was like, oh this is the person I become when I'm on stage and then this person I am behind here, most people are not going to get to see because I'm not going to be doing a lot of interviews and I'm not going to be talking to you about my relationship.
Amena Brown:
And then in Lemonade that was even interesting to me that sort of what would have been not necessarily our behind the scenes view but what was our narration in between the music that she chose the words of a poet. She chose Warsan Shire's work to include there. It felt like seeing her say those words ... First of all, honestly Candace if I'm for real, for real, I was listening to it ... When I was watching the Lemonade at first I was like, if Beyoncé just going to wake up and write poetry like this I really need to rethink my career. I was like I need to rethink this. And then when it came out the next day or so ... That poetry on there, Warsan wrote those things. I was like okay, okay. Because I was like if Beyoncé just waking you writing poems, what do I need to do with my life? But seeing this behind the scenes just as a fan of hers, I feel like she let us in a way that I had only ever seen her do at her shows. Where like when she did the Lemonade tour how there was that montage of some of their wedding footage. Some stuff that you know is personal private things that were not out in the public.
Amena Brown:
What were your thoughts about seeing this other aspect of Beyoncé and that she allowed us to see those behind the scenes parts?
Candice Benbow:
Yeah. I think what has always been ... And I wrote about it a little bit in the Queen Bey anthology that's out now is the need for Sasha Fierce and then a moment where she says that for her, Sasha Fierce had to die. And so like 2011, 2012 where she doesn't feel the need to hide behind this alter ego anymore. And so now what we have is the same person that we see in front of the camera is the same person behind it. That there is this intention that I don't have to compartmentalize myself to be appropriate for certain space. And a lot of us, particularly as black women, we struggle with that because you get named, buried and branded and labeled very quickly if you're considered too abrasive for certain spaces. And so Sasha Fierce as a way to say, I'm only like this badass on stage and I'm meek and demure off stage, that still gives her a certainly level of breathing room. Like a lot of us try to do that. Like nah, I'm just ... When it comes to business, I don't play but in my other life ...
Candice Benbow:
And even more so with how social media can create ... When you are a black woman who talks about race and gender, that social media can create these very polarizing attitudes about you. That you have to navigate in some very raw and frustrating ways and you get painted in a certain way. And I remember I had to stop someone from saying, "Oh well, that's just who you are on your platforms, but I'm sure in real life you're different." I was like, "No, I'm the same person that you're going get in 280 characters, that you're going get off stage and behind the scenes." Because we've been taught that our personalities and who we are aren't necessarily acceptable. And so one of my favorite moments of Homecoming is when she thanked her team and says, "I know you guys are working hard, we just got to get there faster. Like I appreciate all the work you're doing, we just got to get there faster." And then she says, "And until I can see my notes already applied it doesn't make sense for me to make new ones."
Candice Benbow:
Like that moment of just being like, okay be clear that I'm not just telling you what needs to change for my breath and for the sake of talking. I'm telling you something and I don't see where you're implementing it. And as women at large or Black women specifically, it can be difficult to own the fact that you are the boss. So it was really difficult ... I took a step back for like a month and a half from doing my own podcast because I felt like the level of production didn't match where the level of production was on all of the other things that I was doing. And I wanted to wait until it could be at that level. And I remember people telling me, "Oh it's not that bad. Don't worry." I was like, "No. I know what I want my stuff to look like and sound like and feel like and I don't really care" ... I had to say that to a member of my team.
Candice Benbow:
At first it kind of stung to say it but then the more I realized that it had to be said and that I wasn't trying to be arrogant but I was like you know, the truth of the matter is that my name is on it. You work very hard behind the scenes but when it crashes and burns or it doesn't look or perform in a certain way, nobody's going to be asking and putting that at your feet. They're going to say, "Oh, what is this trash Candace put out?" And because it bears my name, because I am the one that is consistent about branding, these things matter to me. And I think that part of what she showed us was that she didn't just take the reins of being the boss for figures sake. She is hands on and respected. She selected her dancers, the colors. Everything she did with intention and what she's showing is that that's possible. That if you have a dream, you have a project that you're to nurture, it matters. It matters to be intentional about saying that my name is attached to this and that my vision for what I see matters.
Candice Benbow:
And I think that was one of the most beautiful things that we got out of Homecoming. That and the fact that it was important to balance. She's very clear, I'm not doing 15, 16 hours of rehearsal anymore. I have a family and I have other obligations and I can't just spend all of my time at work and working on projects and practicing. One of the things I think is so funny was that there's these mugs and these shirts and things that say, you have the same amount of hour in the day as Beyoncé. And Beyoncé is telling us, she don't even spend all that time doing what we think that she's doing. She's like I'm going home and I'm going to bed. And so the importance of, we can have all of these conversations about work life balance and balance, but to see a person that we view and think as someone who cares as iconic for us tell us that I care enough about myself and I care enough about my family to not allow work to consume me I think is a lesson that we get with Homecoming that is applicable for a lot of us.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. Oh there's so much power in that. Just hearing you recount it I felt my feelings watching her say I didn't eat these things. When she went through the list of things she didn't eat, I was already like ooh sis, I'm never going make a homecoming. I was already like, I'm never going do that. And then when she got to the end of that whole thing like, and we rehearsed this many hours and we did this, this, this. And then she was like, and I would never do that all again.
Candice Benbow:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). I will never do that again.
Amena Brown:
I was like please free us, Bey. Free us by even admitting that. One of the parts that really impacted me when she showed the footage and had the narration over that of what it was like for her coming right back into that after having had the twins and having taken her break for maternity leave and different things. And then what it was like those months later and realizing, oh, this body I'm in is not the same body that I remembered because the pregnancy was hard because the C-section, because of all these different things that there's no way you can plan. And I haven't had any children myself but I had to have a really tough surgery two years ago and lost my lung capacity. It took me having to be in recovery like six to eight weeks to even regain my lung capacity and for me it's like I'm sure similar to you, it's like my voice, that's everything.
Candice Benbow:
That is everything.
Amena Brown:
That's everything. That's my instrument. That to me is what the dancer's body is to the dancer, is my voice. And to have had a physical and physiological experience where I'm having to do these exercises of like blowing into this machine so many times a day just to get my lungs back up. Not even being able to raise my voice to someone across the house. And how that taught me in this really immediate way that I was going to have to be more gracious to myself and be more patient with myself and accept that there may be some new ways you have to take care of this body than what you were doing, right?
Candice Benbow:
Yeah, exactly, exactly. A lot of times we're afraid to talk about the changes our body has gone through and that those changes scare us. I had a surgery done in a very similar way and I'm still finding out new things about my body in light of that procedure. And it can be nerve-wracking what technology of knowledge you had about yourself before is not necessarily accurate now. And learning how to not get frustrated with myself. Learning how to say okay Candace, it's going work itself out. You're going to figure it out but then also giving myself permission to see it as a beautiful journey and beautiful adventure. And I think Bey is like a lot of us where in order to achieve a certain goal or a certain thing, we might push ourselves and we may push ourselves to the limit. And then some of us get there, some us don't get there. And the truth of the matter is is that for all of us, whether we get there or we don't get there and decide, yeah, when I do that again that might not necessarily be the route that I take, it was all necessarily for us to learn how to be gracious with ourselves.
Candice Benbow:
Sometimes you got to go to the extreme before you realize I don't have to do that with me. That like I can be gentle and I can have real good care. Again, there are ways that this time you may not have been ... So with Lemonade, you may have consumed it and may have enjoyed it, but may have not been journeying through a heartbreak. But like with Homecoming, you may have experienced what it meant to have to deal with your body differently after motherhood or after a surgery or a procedure and what it means to build your body back. That like, she gave us another glimpse of her story that other people could lean into and see themselves and say wow, it's possible but this does not have to ... The negative implications of this. Or the negative side or the dark side that I see in this doesn't have to be the totality of the story. I think that there's a way that she tells us that we'll be okay because she knows it because she's been through it. That only Black women can do with each other when we really truly see ourselves as sisters and love each other.
Candice Benbow:
That there's a way that we can look at each other and be like you'll be all right. It might not be tomorrow, it might not be the next day but you're going to be good. And I think that so many of us get to take a story of healing away from Homecoming because of the film that we didn't take away from it when we just saw the production.
Amena Brown:
Right. That's such a good point. I think in a way it echoed a narrative for me that my Black women friends have been saying to me and it was nice to see it echoed from someone with Beyoncé's experience. Just rich and also as a performing artist. But just if you were watching that performance without the behind the scenes I think it could feed into this narrative of like, every woman needs to have this bar she's going to hold herself to. And whether it's realistic or not, you need to strive to achieve that. You need to strive to do whatever this is you're trying to do in your life. Do it quickly and do it fast and take yourself to the extremes of whatever that is. And then to get to see the behind the scenes of how she did this, her reflections on whether or not she'd do that, the parts of that that worked, that parts of that that didn't, definitely echoed to me, be in your process and let your life and the things that you have in front of you ... Do your hard work but don't beat up yourself. Be kind to you and be gracious to yourself.
Candice Benbow:
There is grace for you.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. That it's not like you can't have dreams and ambitions and things you want to achieve in life, it's not that you can't be a person who works hard towards seeing those things become a reality, but you are not those things and you are a woman who has value and really from the lens of what she's making there, you are a Black woman who is valued beyond these relational hats you might wear or beyond these things that you can do. You are a value just who you are as yourself, in your body, in your skin. And it was beautiful to see that in a film, but also to remember it being echoed when I'm sitting in a coffee show across the table from a girlfriend or on Marco Polo talking to a girlfriend and being like, Beyoncé's saying something that my girlfriends are also speaking to me too.
Candice Benbow:
Yeah, she is the universal homegirl.
Amena Brown:
It's true. It is true.
Candice Benbow:
She really is. She is the universal homegirl and I think that again the beauty of this ... And I think this conversation is a testament of that. The beauty of when you really do lean into creating art from a healed and whole place and you tell the truth about how you got there, it leads to healing and hope for so many other people. Even take 7/11 for example. 7/11 is a song about absolutely nothing. But in the context of the car with your homegirls, it is a moment of pure and total joy. That like for those two, three moments or however long that song is, you and your homegirls are letting loose and could care less about any and every problem that when you are out of that moment immediately remember. And the fact that there was the intention to know that even that kind of joy and freedom is necessary. Like that it doesn't have to always be this just very like ooh, here we are, Lemonade is about healing and repairing a relationship.
Candice Benbow:
Even with Homecoming. Homecoming is a dope, awesome ... Even if we did not have the backstory of what she was personally going through. And at the same time, it is this moment that all of us get to enjoy and are hype about and then you have the story that connects it to hope and healing and flourishing and thriving that makes it even more rich for us. So when you lean into your truth and you are enough. And I don't think a lot of people do it. Because it's hard work to be honest with yourself and with other people. It's hard work which is why some of us enjoy the counterfeit authenticity.
Amena Brown:
Word to that.
Candice Benbow:
Right. I mean that's the truth. Some of us enjoy counterfeit authenticity because being real is hard work and it's scary work. But when you are honest about who you are and when you are honest about how you got to where you are and you are freed from people's expectations. So like, that I don't even care anymore if you like it or if you don't like it. What I care about is what it frees me to do and it frees other folks to do. That kind of space everybody can't dwell in. Everybody can't dwell there. We would like for them to but when you care about what other people think, that begins to immediately push back on your potential for your own greatness.
Amena Brown:
Y'all see how Candice act like she was talking about Beyoncé but she tried to get in my business. I just want to let the record reflect that Candice was acting like she was talking about Beyoncé but she's also trying to get in my business and I didn't ask for that today so. I didn't ask for that at all.
Candice Benbow:
I'm just saying. I'm just saying.
Amena Brown:
You speaking a word though. You speaking a word though. Even just hearing you say the phrase that it takes hard work to be honest with yourself and with other people and I definitely ... We were growing up in an era where we all had that one friend or that one family member that was like, I always stay real, I'm always real.
Candice Benbow:
Right.
Amena Brown:
Like that person. And it's like okay, that's fine, but that person, they might be saying I'm always real but that does not necessarily mean you are willing to do the hard work of what it takes to be honest with yourself and be honest with the people that are around you. Even, I have to also bring up ... There's a couple of times in Homecoming that Beyoncé chose to make a refrain of something that I just was like, thank you for just making a refrain of that. When she stopped and is like, middle fingers up, put them hands high, I was just like, thank you for carving out a little space right here just so that we could go over and over that because also, I needed some space to be angry sometimes and I can't always listen to Tear Da Club Up at a moment. I needed to middle fingers up, put these hands high. Wave them in his face.
Candice Benbow:
Listen. And that was the other part where I was looking ... So I watched it this morning again in anticipation of our conversation. And there's another part of us that we have difficulty acknowledging and embracing our fierceness. And the fact that we have people who copy us and who can say all the stuff about us but don't ... I'm learning that ... I used to be like oh my goodness. I'm so supportive of X, Y and Z. Why are they not supportive of me? All of the foolishness that until you realize, that like no, there are some people who are deeply jealous of you because they haven't worked out their own stuff and that doesn't have anything to do with you. And there's this part where she's like I woke up these niggas lookin' like me. Woke up they sitting there talking like me. And then she does like this laugh. And I was like yes Bey, talk yourself. Because the truth is is that I can be supportive ... And I get into my ... I am a waling humility and a walking graciousness because I believe that that is who god calls us to be. And I believe that she walks in the same thing.
Candice Benbow:
And at the same time there are moments where I can be like mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah. I know. I know that the Lemonade Syllabus changed a few things. I know that 443 changed some things for some folks. Give me my flowers. I know that my name rings in these places. And that's okay to say. That's okay to say and that's okay to acknowledge. And I think she gives us that kind of like fierceness to ... There's this fierceness to own who we are and our joy in ways that man, I am excited about the next generation of women. The girls who are here and the girls who are coming that won't have to struggle with certain kinds of inferiority and certain kinds of insecurities simply because our generation is getting freed from them. And so they will grow up never knowing the same kind of frustration that we had because we're committed to ensuring that they won't. You know what I'm saying? Like that's so freeing and so beautiful to me.
Amena Brown:
Yes. Oh, that just brings me back to what you were saying earlier about that word legacy and I think thinking about this season of life and feeling not necessarily like I'm in mid life but in legacy terms feeling like I'm standing in the middle of these women who've gone before me and that I wouldn't be here if it weren't for the things they've done. And as I stand here I am more concerned than I would have been 10 years ago about what am I doing that is leaving good things for the women who are coming after me? How am I stewarding the space that I'm in? That I'm leaving them in an even better position than I was given emotionally and physically, spiritually and as many layers of that as I can think. That's totally in my mind in a different way. And maybe so for her as an artist too, kind of being in that similar age range I didn't expect to be thinking that as this point in my life but it's hugely important to me.
Candice Benbow:
I know. I just came back from Israel a month ago and in ways that I was not thinking about that before that trip, I have come back and I've really begun to think even much more intentionally about legacy. Because the truth for all of us is that even when we have not been acting like and operating with the knowledge that somebody has been looking at us, there were still people who have been looking at us. Right.
Amena Brown:
Right. Right. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Candice Benbow:
And so as a way to navigate the space of being true and authentic to who you are and that also recognizing that there has to be something about what I do and what I create that lives beyond me. And that not only lives beyond me but it frees people other than me. And I think that for a lot of us what happened with our parents and understandably so is that so many of them had to focus on working to care for us and make basic immediate needs available that the kind of dreams for legacy and the kind of lives that they wanted to live were not necessarily their immediate first thought. Because it couldn't be. And so I think about that not only the ability for us to at 40 and our late 30s have conversations to think about okay, what do I need to do now that continues to create the legacy that helps to make straight and make whole and make healthy the path for those coming behind us and behind me? That is not made possible without some painful sacrifices of Black women in our past. And that the truth of it is that our decision to take legacy seriously is a move of gratitude for that sacrifice.
Candice Benbow:
It's to honor that my mama wanted to go and finish her PhD years ago, but she had to raise a baby by herself. Right? You know what I'm saying? And my flourishing as a child and as a young girl was much more important to her than to fulfill her own dream. Far be it from me to deny and make mockery that level of sacrifice by not fully living into everything that she knew I could be and everything that people invested in me knew that I could be. And I think so many of us are in that moment where we're like, wait a minute, like we get it that these moments are not possible without our mothers trying to figure out how they was going to pay all these bills that was on the table and still allow us to have these childhoods that weren't marred in what we could not be. Right? That's a big deal.
Candice Benbow:
I get excited about the women, the sisters who hear us who are working towards freedom. But I get so much more excited about the girls who hear us, who follow us, who will come to know about the work that we're doing, who look at Beyonce, who saw Homecoming, who saw ... I mean, even the way that I had to catch myself when my cousin ... My cousin is a freshman in high school, but she's been sheltered in so many ways to her own detriment that my mom used to get on my aunt and my uncle about. But I had to catch myself because on Easter Sunday actually, we were watching Homecoming as a family and it got to the song Partition and my cousin was like, "Oh, that's Partition. That's my song." And I caught myself looking at her like, "Wait, what you know about Partition?"
Amena Brown:
About to say. Huh?
Candice Benbow:
Right. I was like, wait. And then I stopped myself because I didn't want to say anything that would make her feel embarrassed because at the same time at 14, 15, she's coming into her own and understanding her body and I don't want her to feel like that she can't come to me.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Candice Benbow:
Right? Now, the conversation that we have had, the sex conversation, with her is a completely different conversation than I have with my friends who are 35 and rightfully so right?
Amena Brown:
Sure. Yeah.
Candice Benbow:
But it was so funny to hear her say Partition was her song. And she knew all the words. And she was sitting over there and her dad, my uncle, was looking and like, oh my god. And the more she sang it, I sang it with her and we were dancing and I was like, wow, this is how it was when I was singing No, No, No with my friends in high school. And this was how Ginuwine's Pony came out and we were singing Pony and had no business singing Pony. But that was also part of a natural exploration of our bodies and the sensuality of our bodies and I don't want my cousin to grow up feeling like even singing about it in a certain way is negative and nasty and vile. We can have conversations about what it means to be responsible in actions and what it means for her to recognize how to explore it in ways that honor her and choices that she wants to make for herself. But the truth is that we can't have that conversation if I make her feel like what she did initially was wrong and vile. Right?
Amena Brown:
Right. [crosstalk 01:24:21]. Yeah.
Candice Benbow:
You know what I'm saying?
Amena Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Candice Benbow:
To foster and cultivate shame in her and then think that a year, six months from now when she's really confronted with do I want to do this or do I not want to do this, and she doesn't feel like she can talk to me because I made her feel a certain kind of way. You see what I'm saying?
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Candice Benbow:
There are ways that younger girls will not have to deal with that because we broke free and because we're rethinking what it means to be adult women who have eyes of younger girls on us. That's going to take away from any of ... And I tell her all the time, it don't take away from the choices that I make as an adult woman, that I want you to make different ones right now until you have much more knowledge about yourself and your body and who you are to make that kind of a weighty decision. The honesty about them seeing us walk fully into who we are invites them to be honest with us. And I get really excited because I just know that there's shame and that there is inferiority and there's doubt and there's disbelief that so many girls won't know because we're doing the work now to really heal and be whole.
Amena Brown:
Yes Candice, yes.
Candice Benbow:
Yeah.
Amena Brown:
That part, that gives the journey of healing to the theme of this film and album of coming home to one's self. It gives it these layers that you are doing that firstly because you deserve to come home to yourself and because you deserve to have that healing and you are worth doing that work in your own life. But that there's this additional blessing that can come from that, that as you come home to your own self that you have the opportunity and the possibility of helping the women who are coming up after you to also find what their own journey's going to be to continually coming home to themselves too. And that's dope. That's beautiful.
Candice Benbow:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
Since this interview Candice has been booked and busy. Candace is working on her debut book, Red Lip Theology, which will be published by Penguin Randomhouse. Candace is also the founder of Healing at 325. And she's also launched a holiday baking bundle as well as Reads and Reds, Books and Looks for A Righteous Black Feminist Slay. For more info about Candace Benbow's writing and work, to get the holiday baking bundle, to get Reads and Reds you should visit candacebenbow.com. You can also follow Candace, @candacebenbow on Twitter and Instagram. And as always you can get this and any information mentioned in the podcast in the show notes at amenabrown.com/herwithamena.
Amena Brown:
This week, my woman to honor, my woman to Give Her A Crown is Rea Ann Silva. If you don't know that name, you might know something that Rea Ann Silva invented. Rea Ann Silva is the inventor of the Beautyblender. The inventor and CEO of Beautyblender. And if you wear makeup and haven't used the Beautyblender, I recommend that you do. The Beautyblender is a makeup sponge that has changed the game for makeup artists and makeup lovers alike. Rea Ann Silva, thank you for inspiring us and for inventing something to keep our makeup looking smooth and flawless. Rea Ann Silva, Give Her A Crown.
Amena Brown:
Her With Amena Brown is produced by Matt Owen for Sol Graffiti Productions as a part of the Seneca Women Podcast Network in partnership with iHeartRadio. Thanks for listening and don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast.