Amena Owen:
Hey everybody. Welcome back to... oh my gosh, this is the last episode of the year. This is our final episode of 2022, and y'all know I could not end the year without bringing back my friend, and a friend of the podcast, playwright, theater critic, journalist, Kelundra Smith is in the living room with us, y'all. Y'all. Listen. Okay. I invited Kelundra the first time because I just think that you're brilliant and we love talking TV and art and stage things together. And then the second year, because this is our third year now, I think.
Kelundra Smith:
Yes.
Amena Owen:
Right? Okay. So the second year I was like, that was fun. I'm going to ask Kelundra again. And I really hadn't decided what I was doing towards the end of the year this year, and then Desus and Mero...
Kelundra Smith:
Ugh.
Amena Owen:
... had happened and Kelundra and I were tweeting to one another because I was like... I was probably finna ask Kelundra anyways, but now we have to come together during these difficult cultural times. So I want to open up the episode right here. We're going to be talking about some of the best, maybe worst, but mostly best TV things from 2022. But I got to begin with an ode to Desus and Mero, because how are you faring with the way things ended?
Kelundra Smith:
I'm not faring well at all. I'm not okay. I just want to be vulnerable and share that I'm not okay because I just don't know, A, they made us have to get through an election cycle without Desus and Mero, which just feels disrespectful.
Amena Owen:
It do. It do.
Kelundra Smith:
And then it's like, who is going to actively take down Hotep Twitter and Instagram now? You know what I mean? It feels like...
Amena Owen:
Not to be really inappropriate in our conversation Kelundra, but also who is going to inappropriately mention anal sex as many times in a television show as Mero did?
Kelundra Smith:
Sucio Boys.
Amena Owen:
Wow.
Kelundra Smith:
But let me tell you how a show has had such a vast cultural impact. I saw people of all ages, races, you name it, coming up with conspiracy theories as to what may have happened that made Desus and Mero go away.
Amena Owen:
I ain't going to lie, they sent me down a Reddit thread, because I was trying to figure out, on a money level, I was trying to figure out how y'all mess up y'all money like this. Because if two friends, say if they was Amena and Kelundra late night show, on the very basis that me and you getting money, and if you're getting Showtime money, you're getting better money than a lot of other money situations. Even if we don't rock, I feel like we need to sit down and have a meeting and be like, How long we going to act like we rock?
Kelundra Smith:
Right?
Amena Owen:
So we can get this money.
Kelundra Smith:
How you fake the funk with you forever.
Amena Owen:
I don't understand that. I don't get it. I was like, something's got to be bad, bad for y'all to ruin y'all's bags over this.
Kelundra Smith:
See we're now conspiracy theory because this is what happened. It also sent me to following producers on Twitter and I can to try and figure out what happened.
Amena Owen:
Shout out to Josh in heaven. Okay, I'm out here too. I'm out here too. Maybe they're going to say something.
Kelundra Smith:
I was like Julia, what's going on?
Amena Owen:
Will you actually explain this? Explain it.
Kelundra Smith:
So I was like, is it that there's something personal between them or is it the network? Was the network putting pressure on them to reformat the show in a certain way, and that didn't feel true to them, and so they had creative differences? They've left us with so many unanswered questions. I guess I'm going to have to just find a chop cheese to comfort myself. I don't know.
Amena Owen:
And the way it left us so abruptly, I still can't get over that. I'm like, whatever beef happened, it wasn't like we was at the end of a season. Was it the end of a season, Kelundra? And it just feel like it wasn't?
Kelundra Smith:
Felt like they were about to go on a break, but not the end of a season. And then they were basically, we ain't coming back from break. This is going to be the last episode. And I was like, Did the Rihanna baby shower do it? I just don't know.
Amena Owen:
What are the vibes like? I'm sorry for those of y'all that are like, What is y'all talking about? Desus and Mero is a late night show. And listen, if you have never watched Desus and Mero just go on go back, I know it's going to hurt your feelings when you get to the end and you realize they ain't no more, but go on and go back and watch this, because Desus and Mero have had their podcast together, The Bodega Boys, which parlayed into a deal with Vice. Where they were initially a show on Vice and then this late night show on Showtime, which some seasons was once a week and then some seasons, it was twice a week. I wish it would've been every day, to be honest. It was one of the most unique late night show formats, number one. And number two, we know that late night historically has just been very white. So to have these two men of color here giving their very New York perspective. It was such a unique thing, the segments. I feel emotional.
Kelundra Smith:
And they had a New York Times bestselling book called God Level Knowledge Darts.
Amena Owen:
Got a copy.
Kelundra Smith:
Because the whole thing is that they met as teenagers, growing up in the Bronx. Desus Is the child of Jamaican immigrants. Mero is the child of Dominican immigrants. They meet in high school. Years later, they are reunited. They start doing these riffs and commentary about life and culture in the Bronx. But then what happens is that they so brilliantly made the Bronx a microcosm of America. And where we really get the excellence of Desus and Mero, to me, was in the pandemic.
Amena Owen:
Yes.
Kelundra Smith:
When they had the little ticker tape that would go across the beginning of every episode with commentary about what was going on. It is worth your while to go back and just read the little ticker tape that they did across those Zoom episodes because somebody was writing comedic brilliance. Also, they did their own verses as if it was like Beethoven versus Mozart. And that was like utter and complete foolishness that was so delightful. And then on top of that, Ziwe, who has this show on Showtime as well was a writer on Desus and Mero. So I'm like, how did this happen? I'm still clearly distressed. I'm distressed.
Amena Owen:
Very much. It feels like a gap. It was always a gap in my life when they would be like, we're going on a break, or it would be like, Oh, the season's over, and I would really be disappointed. And then the one season when they went from two episodes a week down to one, I was like, What am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to do that other night? It's a whole week of stuff going by. I'm a miss out on that. I appreciated about the show, the characters that were very much Bronx centric, the one man that would always say, "Take it ease."
Kelundra Smith:
Oh yes. Yes. What was his name?
Amena Owen:
Why can't I remember his name right now? Oh my gosh.
Kelundra Smith:
Was it Joey? I feel like it was Joey or something.
Amena Owen:
Oh my gosh. And then this anchor man-
Kelundra Smith:
No, it was Good Time Tommy or Big Time Tommy.
Amena Owen:
Yes. That's it. It was Tommy. He would be on there doing, "We do it old school." Oh my gosh. Just that, this anchorman that they were just so obsessed with.
Kelundra Smith:
Maurice Dubois.
Amena Owen:
Maurice Dubois on the news. I don't even watch the news in the Bronx. And I'm just shout out to Maurice. The interview that they did with David Letterman and the way that I was like... There's a few moments that happen in your life that I'm like, if that happens to you and nothing else happens to you, you're all right. You're good. As two late night hosts, David Letterman looking at them and being like, This is the future right here. This is the future. This is what late supposed to be. David Letterman. David Letterman. I would have been like, You really can't tell me anything about my life. David Letterman basically looked at us and told us we're geniuses. The interview they did with Barack Obama. Well, President Barack Obama, still to this day is one of the most wild things. AOC, that interview when AOC came around the corner talking about "urrr" I was like, Oh my God.
Kelundra Smith:
And then made them drinks at the bar she used to work at. And it was just like, what is happening here? And that is truly the essence of that show. It was like they would go find the wildest stuff that nobody else was talking about, or they would get on the streets and they would talk to the people and get the real perspective about what was happening. And that's the thing. No one else is truly centering working class people of color in anything.
Amena Owen:
Yes.
Kelundra Smith:
And that's what they did. And they didn't talk down to their audience. They were like, No, these are people who have real opinions, what they feel and think matters. This is America, and then we're losing Trevor Noah on the Daily Show. So it's just the white out. I don't know.
Amena Owen:
What are we supposed to do now? I just want hand to heart. Want to give a shout out to Desus and Mero. Obviously y'all listen to the podcast. I don't know what the beef was. I don't know the details. I tried to read as much as I could read, and I still don't know if it was the truth. I really, on the one hand, I want both of y'all to thrive, but I hope one day y'all could squash this beef and selfishly come back on television. But even if you don't come back on television, I hope y'all squashed this beef because this was a friendship before it became a thing that we got to consume. And y'all really revolutionized something in television. And if y'all can't come back and do it, I hope y'all lay some groundwork that's some other voices, that are picking up on people who are being left out of the late night conversation, can happen. But Desus and Mero, y'all are missed. I don't know Kelundra. I still feel my feelings about this one.
Kelundra Smith:
Oh, same. I often, on Sundays, Sucio Sunday.
Amena Owen:
Okay, Sucio Sunday.
Kelundra Smith:
And Ursday. It's a hole for me. And no one has filled it. And it makes me sad and I don't know. There's no closure here.
Amena Owen:
That's it. I still follow both of them and seeing them do things separately, it make my heart ache a little bit. I'll be like...
Kelundra Smith:
Yes. The friendship, to me, has to survive. I could be okay with the show ending if the friendship survives.
Amena Owen:
Yeah.
Kelundra Smith:
But if I don't have the show or the friendship, I'm like-
Amena Owen:
No. No.
Kelundra Smith:
Well wait.
Amena Owen:
Okay. It's like a Andre 3000 moment. I would love for Andre 3000 to be out here just making a gang of music and performing and touring all over the place. However, it seems that Andre 3000 has a happier life when he just play his flute in the airport and just meet up with random people at a coffee shop someplace. So do I want his music? Yes. I would prefer a healthy Andre 3000. And if a healthy Andre 3000 just played a flute some places and he don't never make another record, then I'll settle for that. And that is totally, I feel the same way about Desus and Mero. Would I love to see y'all, at some point, come back together and figure some things out and redo some things? I would love to see it. But more than that, I would just love a little picture of your Timberlands together so that we know. Y'all all right. Y'all good with each other.
Kelundra Smith:
Weren't they supposed to have a line of Timbs. What happened?
Amena Owen:
They did. Everything was short lived. Everything. Kelundra, I'm moving on because I'm not going to be crying, but just know Desus, Mero, y'all listening, we miss y'all. Okay, let's talk about some happy news. I want to get involved in best sitcom of 2022, Kelundra. Tell me.
Kelundra Smith:
Oh, we know what the best sitcom of 2022 is.
Amena Owen:
Are we drum roll? Is it not Abbott Elementary?
Kelundra Smith:
I don't know what the other option would be. Quinta came in and was like, I'm going to take the most basic thing that everybody in America does and milk it for as much content as possible. And she can literally, as far as I'm concerned, just get renewed for the next 15 seasons.
Amena Owen:
Big facts. Big super facts.
Kelundra Smith:
I'm in. I'm sold. I'm hooked. I'm there.
Amena Owen:
Okay, if I bring The Office into the chat, which, to me, is the last TV show that I remember watching as an adult. And at some point being like, this is going to be a classic. But I feel like the office was way more seasons in before that thought was coming to me. When I go back and rewatch The Office now I'm like, Dang, this was amazing from the beginning. But from the beginning I was like, man, they really just going to do this show about people working in the office. I don't know. It was season two, season three, before I was like, Say what? We got to make sure we home when the office come on. I didn't feel like that right away. Abbott Elementary really off of episode one had me like, Yes, okay, we're Wednesdays. We're Thursday. It's Tuesday. What day we doing? Because yes, immediately Quinta had me like, Oh my gosh. The ensemble, the teachers. Yes. She had me right away.
Kelundra Smith:
Well, and she sucked millennials in because she got Jessie from the Parent Trap, who we loved with Lindsay Lohan, and what's his name? Jesse Tyler. Is it Williams?
Amena Owen:
Yes.
Kelundra Smith:
Chris got him. And then you got D from Moesha. She basically went and got our faves and was like, Here's a workplace comedy that is going to very smartly dissect the issues with public school systems in America, but in a way that is lighthearted, that's funny, and we're going to center the most poorly dressed, awkward black girl possible as our protagonist. And she's going to have a boyfriend that is a YouTube rep.
Amena Owen:
He is utterly useless. She has the most useless man. If she was my friend, I would be like, you know the skit that Janet Jackson did before What have you done for me lately? When her girls was talking to her. Her girls was like, But what has he done for you lately? I would literally be like that to Janine's character. I'd be like, Janine, what do he do besides Millie Rock? What do he do for you?
Kelundra Smith:
Nothing. Tariq has got to be... And the thing is, we didn't know this about Tariq from the beginning, and that's part of the brilliance of the show. When we meet Tariq, there's this outcry from the audience of like, "Oh no, Janine's boyfriend is awful."
Amena Owen:
He's trash. He's trash.
Kelundra Smith:
We weren't ready.
Amena Owen:
She got to be a teacher on a budget. She got to deal with all this bureaucracy and all the terrible things going on that's making teachers jobs hard, and her boyfriend, she basically supporting him. He don't really do nothing for her. Oh child. I want to thank Abbott Elementary for this low simmer of chemistry between Janine and Gregory. Am I making that up? That's not his name. Yes, that is his name. Gregory. Right. Okay. The chemistry between the two of them at work. It is giving me what I loved about Jim and Pam.
It is giving me the slow burn that made me just stick in there for The Office. Because really, after a while I was like, Oh snap. The Office is really about these two people. I thought this was a comedy about the people working in this corporate office. But it's really about these two people falling in love. Will they? Won't they? I love the way Quinta is giving us these little moments of simmer. But we are now in our second season and these two people are still not together. And I'm going to watch it, Kelundra, I'm going to watch until they finally, they got to kiss. We got to do something. We need something.
Kelundra Smith:
But you know what? She's built the characters in such a way that she can drag this out because Gregory is an oddball who hates food.
Amena Owen:
He does hate food. When he was in the car hiding his little boring sandwiches he was eating, I cannot. I can't.
Kelundra Smith:
And then Janine is socially awkward and oblivious to things, but also super bouncy and all over the place.
Amena Owen:
Eternal Optimist. Even in the most not optimistic circumstances. Yes.
Kelundra Smith:
Yes.
Amena Owen:
Yes.
Kelundra Smith:
And then, shout out to Janelle James who-
Amena Owen:
Ooh, honey.
Kelundra Smith:
... has made the world's worst principles the most endearing character.
Amena Owen:
Yes. It's not even a love to hate because I don't hate her. It's just her ability to choose to be inept, fascinates me. Because it's not like baby's not smart. It's not like baby can't understand the vibes of the job. It's her choice to be like, It's TikTok for me and not y'all jobs and what y'all need from me as a boss. It's not that. I'm choosing my TikTok hustle over y'all. That's wild.
Kelundra Smith:
And they're setting us up for the utter and complete hot mess that will be the moment where Gregory chooses Janine and not Ava.
Amena Owen:
Ooh. She is going to be wrecked. She is going to be like you choosing this girl who can't even match a sweater with her skirt? You really choosing her over all this badass bitch? Really?
Kelundra Smith:
Janine is giving Laura Ingalls Wilder [inaudible 00:20:43] single.
Amena Owen:
Janine is somehow giving, if there was a rainbow or dots version of Anthropology the store, that is what Janine's character is giving us. I've never seen that combination until I looked at her like, wow, this is, Wow. I don't know what it be called. You know what it's going to be called? She's giving us sociology, but it's "gee." That's the store. It's like Rainbow Dots Shoe Warehouse Sociologee.
Kelundra Smith:
Not Cottage Corp for the broke.
Amena Owen:
Okay. I was like, baby is matching these florals with these pastels and stripes.
Kelundra Smith:
And she's like 410 and the colors don't coordinate. The clothes are wearing her. It's a mess. It's a mess. And then of course we have Melissa who is always in leather leggings. It's like, how are you like a mob boss teaching second grade in leather leggings?
Amena Owen:
Okay. Okay. I was like, wait a minute. I wish I knew the actress's name. I'm going to try to see if I can find her name before we hang up.
Kelundra Smith:
Lisa Ann Walters.
Amena Owen:
Lisa Ann Walters. And then this season she has a TA. The actress who is playing her TA, who I first encountered on the last season of Curb Your Enthusiasm. And she had me on Curb Your Enthusiasm. She had me, who is this hilarious lady that walked in to this television show. So when they were like, You're about to get a TA, and they showed the little sneak peek of the next episode. And I was like, That's going to be her TA? Yes. Bring more hilarious people into this situation. Let them interact together. Now Melissa got a TA that she got to teach. She can't even get just unadulterated help. She got to teach her how to be a TA. Woo. Yes. Yes. Love to see it. Love to see it. Oh my gosh. I'm going to find her name before we hang up because that girl had me hollering. Are you a Curb Your enthusiasm person or does Larry David wear you out?
Kelundra Smith:
I'm not. I was not an Office or Curb Your Enthusiasm person. I was a Park and Recreation person.
Amena Owen:
Okay.
Kelundra Smith:
So the Ben, Leslie is the same as the Gregory, Janine or the Pam, Jim. And then I don't know what would be the other equivalent of Curb Your Enthusiasm. Always Sunny is probably a little too dark.
Amena Owen:
Right, right. And I was not a big Seinfeld fan, but I went back to watch Curb Your Enthusiasm and was like, this thing is hilarious. So now Kelundra and I have to have a special group chat, but it's just the two of us, where I'm going to be like, don't even watch the whole show. Just watch this episode so that you can see this girl. Okay. Her name is Keyla Monterroso Mejia. Keyla, I know you listening to the podcast. Sis, you're hilarious. Everything you do makes me laugh. Here for it. Okay, let's also talk about Sheryl because I feel like this Emmy moment out here. This Emmy moment.
Kelundra Smith:
She's our dream girl and that's just what it is. She's been our dream girl. She remains our dream girl. She walks as our dream girl on this earth. The thing about Sheryl Lee Ralph is that she's just been doing it for so long and she's so seasoned and so who she is. And it comes through in the character Barbara, who is also absurdly funny but in a different kind of way. Like Barbara, how you going to say you going to start a garden in cake garden?
Amena Owen:
Huh? Okay. The episode where they had the bit where her character kept confusing who was white and who was Black. I thought my stomach was going to hurt from laughing. Because the wonderful part about this writing is, I don't know about other people because I'm Black, but a lot of the Black people I know have at least a family member, or someone you go to church with, people who are Black have somebody else Black they know who always does a thing like this, some names, they're going to mix it up and you like Grandma, I don't think that when you saying that person name, I don't think that's who you think it is.
Kelundra Smith:
My person is my father. When he says a person's name... And it's the thing, you never correct them, but you know who they're talking about.
Amena Owen:
Big facts.
Kelundra Smith:
Because you have gotten this person's name wrong. It's not who that is. My father has killed many a celebrity. He swears they're all dead. I'm just like, that person is still alive. You're thinking about the wrong person.
Amena Owen:
Please. It's like my mom at the beginning of the pandemic talking about, I was reading about this website where interracial couples would get on there and they're making a lot of money. People just watching them eat food. Am I going to tell my mom that's Only Fans? I'm not going to tell my mom that she's thinking about Only Fans, that, that's why they're watching interracial couples eat food. It's not a YouTube.
Kelundra Smith:
Is interracial Only Fans thing a thing? Is that a thing?
Amena Owen:
Apparently there are interracial couples that have carved out a niche for themselves on Only Fans where they are eating food. I don't know if they're eating this food off of each other or just eating food together. But it was like the way my mom was describing it, I knew right away that this is not a family oriented situation that we're doing. But I'm not going to say Only Fans. I'm not going to say it. We don't want that information out there with our parents. No.
Kelundra Smith:
No. Because I definitely don't want them to then explore what it is and then be trying to pass out anointing oil.
Amena Owen:
Okay. Okay. Extending their faith. Okay. No. No. Okay. You mentioned another sitcom that you love, and I was very excited that you sent me this. I want to talk about, I Love That For You, I need to discuss it. Tell me the vibes.
Kelundra Smith:
So first of all, let me just say, shout out to Jenifer Lewis, because never ma'am will you come off of seven seasons of a hit TV show on ABC, which was Blackish, and then turn around and give, what is to me, some of the best acting she's done on television with this ridiculous show on Showtime. I love that for you. Let me just explain to the people, because I feel like I Love That For You is one of those shows that's in the back corner of Showtime because it got overshadowed by Yellowjackets. But you need to get into this. So the premise of this show is that this girl who had juvenile cancer used to watch the home shopping network to make herself feel better. And her aspiration in life was to be a host on the Home Shopping Network. Her dream comes true, but it don't come true in the way that you think.
Amena Owen:
Ooh. My, my.
Kelundra Smith:
And that's all I'm going to say. Did I give away to many spoilers? But this show is absolutely absurd. I think they did get renewed.
Amena Owen:
Yes, for season two.
Kelundra Smith:
And I hope they get renewed. They can also drag this out forever for me.
Amena Owen:
Period.
Kelundra Smith:
I'm ready.
Amena Owen:
Period. Sign me up. Okay. First of all, y'all need to know that Kelundra and I exchange notes before we do these here episodes. Because I could literally talk to Kelundra all day. Okay. All day long. I could have an eight hour episode talking to Kelundra, and we would break to eat and that's it. Okay. So we have to compare notes. So when I get her notes, I'm like, Ooh. Yes. Because then I know the shows that we both watched, and there'll be some shows that I'm like, Oh, I didn't watch that one, so I can't wait to hear what Kelundra's going to tell us. Listen, I love that for you. Y'all need to get involved. As soon as I saw Jenifer Lewis, Molly Shannon and Vanessa Bayer, I was like, Oh no. Not y'all putting all three of them on the same show. Huh?
Kelundra Smith:
Foolishness. Molly Shannon is a nut. And I don't know how she walks and exists in life being as ridiculous as she is, because I'm like, this isn't acting. You are this crazy.
Amena Owen:
Yes.
Kelundra Smith:
Butt the thing is, Molly Shannon, in this show, is not being as wacky, but not in the way we're used to seeing her.
Amena Owen:
It's a bit restrained.
Kelundra Smith:
Yes. It's constrained wack job. And that's also...
Amena Owen:
It's more of a slow unravel of a character for her, where you're watching her character unravel slowly. You're like, Oh. Because you're already thinking to yourself, with the premise of this show, people who work at a home shopping network, if your career is built on this, that gives us some things to know about you and why this turned out to be your career. But the character that Molly Shannon is playing, watching that thing unravel and get wilder and wild... Ooh. Yes. Yes.
Kelundra Smith:
Shout out to the stylist. Whoever's doing wardrobe on that show. Perfection. Every single character has a distinct look. Molly Shannon, send me a jacket. I know we have the same style.
Amena Owen:
Hey listen, I love a bold blazer, Kelundra.
Kelundra Smith:
I love a bold blazer.
Amena Owen:
Please match with a different color. Bold pants. We're not talking about people who are just wearing a monochrome outfit here. These are magenta blazers with orange pants. Things are happening in this wardrobe.
Kelundra Smith:
And white Go-go boots. Somehow it goes together really, really well. And then the chick who is supposed to be a spoof of a real housewife who got a HSN show. I don't even know what's going on with her and the character who I'm going to call Jerry Falwell Jr.
Amena Owen:
Yes. Yes. I thank you for bringing that reference because there's an accuracy. Okay. Yes. Yes. Wow. I saw the title and I was like, Oh, that's interesting. And then I was like, Oh, they don't mean in the sense of what is currently slang to be like, Oh, I love that for you. I love that life for you. That, but also with home shopping, I love this faux chinchilla blanket for you as well. Y'all got to check that one out because that show there, it brought me a lot of joy. And it is very wonderful to see Jenifer Lewis in this next move, next moment in her career. It is wonderful to see her in that role. Honey. Okay.
Kelundra Smith:
And she got a concubine.
Amena Owen:
Okay. Before we move on, I need to speak to this a little bit, Kelundra, because I remember watching the first few episodes of How To Get Away With Murder, for example. And I was like, not Viola getting it like this. This is me watching Jenifer Lewis getting it. Jenifer Lewis is getting it on this show. Okay. She is getting some things she only referred to, her character only referred to on Blackish. She is getting it. It is happening on this show. I also love that for her.
Kelundra Smith:
Listen, I only aspire. I can only aspire.
Amena Owen:
Love that for you, Jenifer Lewis. Love that for you. Okay, let's talk about best drama. You brought up a show that I haven't watched but my husband watched. Can you discuss the merits of The Watcher?
Kelundra Smith:
Okay. So first of all, before I describe The Watcher, let me just say that I'm so happy Jennifer Coolidge is having her moment. Jennifer Coolidge is a special brand of human being, and I am just so happy to see her having this reemergence in getting all of these really interesting roles. So let's talk about The Watcher. The Watcher on Netflix, based on a true story.
Amena Owen:
What?
Kelundra Smith:
Yes. Yes.
Amena Owen:
I don't think I know that part. Based on a true story. Okay. Okay.
Kelundra Smith:
Based on a true story that happened in New Jersey. And essentially what we have is this family is moving into this beautiful suburban New England home. They move in and the neighborhood and the neighbors are not what they think. There is a "historical society" that is hell bent on making sure that people don't make certain alterations to these homes, which we find out is for very, very terrifying, shady and unscrupulous reasons.
So all I have to say is that dead bodies happen, secret passageways happen, money laundering happens, it's all happening. Me saying these things is not giving away anything. But what the core of the show is getting at is the social conditions that people set up trying to keep up with the Joneses, or keep up appearances, or have a certain protected suburban lifestyle and the cost of that. And it's real. But then there's also this element of it, Amena, of how policing young women's bodies and their purity is also mission critical to the preservation of the white suburban, upper middle class nuclear family in a way that's very slick in there. I don't know. The Watcher is something and it's a show that I could watch again.
Amena Owen:
And probably pick up different things each time you watched it. If I wasn't such a scaredy cat, honey, you would've got me, but I looked at the trailer for a little while and I was like, nope. That's nightmares for me. That's nightmares for me. Let's talk about a show that we both watched. We have talked a little bit about it, but now we are second season, best drama for us, P-Valley.
Kelundra Smith:
Oh, down in the valley with the girls get naked.
Amena Owen:
Ooh. I just almost want to write a love letter to this show. I love this show so much. Kelundra, you and I spoke about this because we both were into the first season. We were both so excited to see this show also get renewed for a second season. We are two seasons deep. What were your thoughts about season two of P-Valley, seeing where these characters developed? Tell me the vibes.
Kelundra Smith:
So first of all, let me just say shout out to creator Katori Hall.
Amena Owen:
Big facts. Yes.
Kelundra Smith:
I actually, shameless plug, did a profile of Katori Hall for the Bitter Southerner. So-
Amena Owen:
Love it.
Kelundra Smith:
... look for the Bitter Southerner Magazine.
Amena Owen:
We're going to put it in the show notes. Y'all going to have a link to that article in the show notes. Come on, journalist Kelundra Smith. Yes.
Kelundra Smith:
And for those who are in Atlanta, know that you will be able to see the Hot Wing King, which is the play that is a spinoff of P-Valley at the Alliance Theater in 2023.
Amena Owen:
Come on, Kelundra, come on and give us the tips and the tea today? Yes.
Kelundra Smith:
Yes. Yes. So in 2023, if you were in Atlanta, look for the Hot Wing king because the Hot Wing King is a little bit of a spinoff of P-Valley, and it's the play version. Okay. So anyway, talking about second season of P-Valley, Katori went places I didn't expect. When you open the season with a makeshift strip club car wash, I'm already-
Amena Owen:
Listen. Listen.
Kelundra Smith:
... not ready.
Amena Owen:
Because some of y'all are not from the south. I know there are strip clubs everywhere, but ain't no strip club like a strip club in the south. So to have this season open with how our strip clubs in the south surviving the pandemic had me like, Wow. Wow. Yes. Continue.
Kelundra Smith:
A strip club car wash where you could also get a 10 piece wing dusted with THC. So much there. Let's break it down.
Amena Owen:
So many layers.
Kelundra Smith:
I will say, the characters that most fascinated me this season were Lil Murda and Miss Mississippi. Because we see Mississippi, first of all, the episode they gave her, which I think is called Cinderella or something, it was like a Cinderella story or something. The episode they gave her, it gives us a background of who she is and how she ended up in that abusive relationship was just so well crafted. And then we see her really have to figure out a way out of this situation that dancing can't get her out of. And I think that's such a coined moment. The pandemic and how it exacerbated situations for people in certain socioeconomic situations. It's like, yeah, you money can't get you out of this necessarily. There's something more to it. And then with Lil Murda, same thing. In a situation where it's money can't necessarily get you out of this, flossin', no matter what you do. There's some real stuff going on here. The surprise boyfriend lover brother, I don't even know.
Amena Owen:
There was a lot of layers.
Kelundra Smith:
I was along for the ride.
Amena Owen:
There was a lot of layers to that plot. I want to give a shout out to Katori and the P-Valley team for giving us these layers of relationships between men, and where a relationship can be romantic between men, and also have this very protective brother friend. The layers of that relationship between Lil Murda and his friend who also then became his security. I'm about to call him Diamond, but that's somebody else. Why am I making up names?
Kelundra Smith:
Diamond was the security for the club.
Amena Owen:
Diamond was security for the club. But what was his name? Thaddeus? Am I making that up?
Kelundra Smith:
I don't know if it was Thaddeus.
Amena Owen:
Why can't I remember his name, child? They had a nickname they called him in the show though. I think the character's government name was Thaddeus. But they had a nickname they called him, Lil Murda's friend that he knew from prison, who had then come out of prison as Lil Murda was going on tour. They were asking him to be security.
Kelundra Smith:
You know what? It was Thaddeus. You right.
Amena Owen:
Okay. Okay. The layers of that relationship was just touching, haunting. I feel like the way Katori plays around with the idea of what can be haunting in this show, that that is not just the way we think of a horror film or a scary movie. It's also the relationships that are gone away. It's a grief that can be haunting. It's the life we thought we were going to have and now we don't have that life. There's just some ways she layered that, that were just masterful to me.
Kelundra Smith:
Oh yeah. She was trying to be on her Toni Morrison, honestly, with that. And then also shout out to Patrice Woodbine of Chucalissa being a pastor or [inaudible 00:42:11] I've never seen anything like it.
Amena Owen:
The way she gave those people the sermon and the twerk, honey, for a split second, Kelundra, and you know I don't be going to church like that, but for a split second I was like, is that my pastor? Could I get a pastor that do that? I could be into it. A Black woman who's like, here's a little bit about Jesus. Here's a little twist of my booty cheek. It's just something about those two things that really just came together for me.
Kelundra Smith:
On a parade float, mind you. Let's give time, place and manner. Okay.
Amena Owen:
Please. Please. I want to give a special shout out to Gail Bean playing Roulette in this show. Many of you that are Insecure watchers, remember her from Insecure as well. She had a character that was dating Lawrence in Insecure. Tasha, I think, may have been her name on Insecure. Gail Bean's been acting for a long time, honey. So I'm very excited to see Gail Bean getting her do out here. But this, the way she is playing Roulette on this show, these gum pops that are happening when Roulette is chewing gum and she is just popping gum and telling the people what they need to know. I really am enjoying her character and what her character is going to become. I like it. I like to see it.
Kelundra Smith:
And then talk about haunting, her and, what's the other girl, Whisper. The witch looking girl?
Amena Owen:
Yes. Because it's like they're like a devil angel kind of, but who is the angel? But who is the devil?
Kelundra Smith:
Creepy. They're creepy together, but in a good way.
Amena Owen:
I was very little bit afraid but also fascinated. Very fascinated. I'm very excited to see that P-Valley was renewed for a third season. What are your thoughts thinking about what could be on this third season. Kelundra? We know that the actress playing Autumn Night is not returning. So I'm just curious about quite a few things, what Katori can do with all of the things that were left undone at the end of season two.
Kelundra Smith:
Well, where Katori has me a little puzzled, but I'm excited about it is, I don't know what then becomes the thing that keeps them together.
Amena Owen:
Huh.
Kelundra Smith:
Because she left us in a place where everything is splintering. So I think there's a possibility that we have a lot of the same characters, but in a new place or in new circumstances. And so that's exciting because it'll almost feel like the show is starting over in a lot of ways, so we don't get exhausted with the storyline. Because there are a lot of things that were left undone that need to be tied up. We don't know what happens to Mississippi. We don't know how Mercedes going to get out of this situation with the coach and his wife, good Lord. Her daughter, we don't know how that situation's going to end up. We don't know how Uncle Clifford and Lil Murda resolve or fail to resolve. There's so many unknowns. But also the Pynk is still in jeopardy.
Amena Owen:
Right?
Kelundra Smith:
So I don't know. I don't know. I think the casino opening represents a whole different possibility.
Amena Owen:
And it's not reminding me completely of the Wire, but of the fact that as the seasons of the Wire went on, there were all of these layers of corruption that in the Wire, it's like, okay, here we have the corner boys and we see drugs. Okay, well now we see the police are also corrupt. But now we see the government is also corrupt. So I'm interested to see, now that we've got this character, who's become the mayor of Chucalissa, and we have the people who are fighting behind the scenes to see the casino happen. Very curious to see how far up are we about to see this corruption? How far are we about to see what's light and what's dark, and the different ways you can define that as well. It's going to be fascinating. Katori, give it to the people.
Give it to the people, Katori Hall. Okay, I've been waiting to discuss this. We are talking about best new TV series, Kelundra. I want The Bear to enter the chat right now because I have been waiting to discuss this with you. You know that a girl is a amateur foodie in her life. You know a girl is involved in that. So I am always here for a foodie type of show. But The Bear, it just did even more. It was just very sumptuous of a watch for me. Discuss your thoughts about The Bear. Were you surprised by it? Tell me the things.
Kelundra Smith:
The Bear, to me, is stressful. I've never felt such tension and stress watching a show probably since Scandal. Because what they have so brilliantly done is they capture the pace of what it is to work in the kitchen at a fast, casual restaurant that's in the middle of a rush. But also it's a mom and pop type place where there's family drama, there's corruption, they're dealing with a pandemic. How do we survive monetarily? There's splintered family relationships. There's all these things happening, and everybody has something at stake with the survival of this restaurant. And so it just throws you in.
That's why it reminded me of theater in so many ways. I've never seen a TV show that literally drops you in and you feel like you are standing in the kitchen in the middle of this restaurant and you're useless. You want to help but you can't.'re You trying to pick up a skillet or chop an onion and there is nothing. And they deal with generational differences. They deal with class differences, they deal with educational differences. And it's so Chicago, in a lot of ways. My dad is from Chicago and so there are parts of it that are so, yeah, this could only be Chicago for me.
Amena Owen:
I think you described it so well, that feeling, in some ways did feel like how a play can feel, because so much of the show is in this tight little space in this kitchen. Whereas in a lot of TV shows that were about a restaurant, there's all these other places to go, and they really kept you, for a lot of the show feeling stuck as we find some of the characters feeling stuck as well. I was late to The Bear on a level, but I was seeing people tweet about it, and I was seeing people tweet about how they dated guys that were like the central character. And I couldn't tell if that was complimentary or that was like, this ain't the type of man. They were like, I have dated this kind of chef bro, and this ain't what you want. So I was watching them and I was like, let me go check out this show. Then I want to shout out the character Sydney being played by Ayo Edebiri.
Kelundra Smith:
Yeah.
Amena Owen:
If there was going to be a spinoff, let it follow her, because these braids, this skin, everything. Everything.
Kelundra Smith:
Yeah. Her character totally, I didn't see her coming. I did not see her coming. Didn't.
Amena Owen:
No. Very unexpected. It was unexpected to see her character, unexpected what world her character is coming from into the world of this mom and pop show. And for those of you that have not checked out The Bear, tell me if I get this right, Kelundra, because sometimes I'll be embellishing. But basically to me, The Bear is about a restaurant that was owned by a brother who, when he died, he left the restaurant to his younger brother. But there was tension in that leaving because of how the brother died. And there was also tension because the little brother was never really welcomed in the restaurant when the brother was alive. So it's a big surprise that the brother would leave the restaurant to him. But herein the little brother has become a bit of somebody in the food world.
He is out here with the aioli. He is of the aioli and not of the mayo. Y'all know the vibes, if you're a foodie person. He is a person who is talking about the aioli, not the mayo. His brother got a Chicago's down home food kind of restaurant. So to see this younger brother coming home, but unwillingly coming home because he has to, under some sad circumstances. And now meeting up against the people who have been there holding down the restaurant all along, and all that ensues from there. It was a fascinating watch.
Kelundra Smith:
It's a mess. And as much as Carmy, the brother-
Amena Owen:
The central character.
Kelundra Smith:
... is a questionable character, I will say that if I was in that situation, the brother trying to bake the chocolate cake in the back would've sent me over the edge.
Amena Owen:
Right. Okay.
Kelundra Smith:
We serve Italian beef, what are you doing? Right?
Amena Owen:
What are you doing making tool. We don't need chocolate tool here, we need braised beef my guy. Period. Period.
Kelundra Smith:
It would have sent me over the edge.
Amena Owen:
Good night. Good night. Although Marcus's little tender heart, and Marcus and Sidney's characters, I don't know what they're trying to give us for season two, but-
Kelundra Smith:
There's a there there?
Amena Owen:
... they had a couple moments that I was like, Hmm, what's going on here between y'all? What else is cooking?
Kelundra Smith:
No, I like what else is cooking? I like how you did that.
Amena Owen:
What else is cooking? We want to know. Okay, talk to me about our next television show from Issa Rae. We have to discuss Rap Sh!t.
Kelundra Smith:
If Instagram was a TV show, that's what Issa Rae gave us.
Amena Owen:
I'm trying to see, is this a compliment, Kelundra? Do we like it. What are the vibes?
Kelundra Smith:
Well, but that's the thing about the show. I think Issa is simultaneously celebrating an element of Black culture and also completely satirizing it and poking fun of it, because she is using Miami and this hustle to get on as a way of showing how people spend more time trying to hustle and get around a thing than actually becoming and doing the thing. But also it's just ridiculous. Shauna, as a protagonist, is an absurd idea, because you've got this girl in her early thirties who is a super woke SoundCloud rapper with five followers, who-
Amena Owen:
Who certainly sounds like she did spoken word at one time. That was immediately the vibes I felt. Oh, this is a slam poet. I got it. Okay.
Kelundra Smith:
Absolutely. Queen of the open mic. And she teams up with basically a young Miami type, played very brilliantly by Chameleon, and they decide they're going to get on and become this rap duo. But they're having to then question, along the way, how much of themselves they're willing to give up, how much of themselves they're willing to compromise to make it, and what are they even aiming for to begin with? It's smart, which we expect from Issa, but also I think in a lot of ways it's a take down of Instagram culture.
Amena Owen:
Huh. Now see, Kelundra, you done brought a point out right there. You done brought a point out, because I didn't even think about that, but yes, yes, Kelundra. And another thing I felt, I felt this a little bit watching Insecure that I knew that the generation of black women that Issa was writing about wasn't my generation, but I loved getting that... I feel like I'm sort of the tail end of Gen X. And so I loved watching Insecure and thinking, Oh, these were similar things that maybe my girlfriends and I were talking about when that was our phase of life.
But then also being like, oh, these things, we weren't talking about, because that wasn't a thing we experienced, because that is the difference in the generation. I felt even more separation watching Rap Sh!t. Immediately felt like some things is going on here that I just know nothing about. Let me watch and find out. And this is a show that is loosely based on the story of the City Girls, the hip hop group, the City Girls, right? So I was just fascinated, I'm fascinated watching Rap Sh!t, like, wow, okay. That's how those lyrics got like that.
Kelundra Smith:
[inaudible 00:56:46]
Amena Owen:
Girl
Kelundra Smith:
[inaudible 00:56:47]
Amena Owen:
[inaudible 00:56:47] That hit. Okay. As soon as they did, I, around the house will hit it sometimes. [inaudible 00:56:56] Please, we don't know where the M is on the end. It's lost. We don't know. It's [inaudible 00:57:03] That's it. That's it. I don't know where the M is at. Y'all ask your mama where the M is at. We don't know. Okay. Yes.
Kelundra Smith:
There are some good one-liners too in that show, when she's on her little Instagram or TikTok videos and she's like, Well, you a five star bitch. You make them pay for every star. I was like, This is such a hot pass, who wrote this?
Amena Owen:
Not me watching, that's right girl. Every star. Every star, honey,
Kelundra Smith:
Every star.
Amena Owen:
Okay, my last category, we have to talk about this because you and I both love a good old docu-series, honey.
Kelundra Smith:
Yes.
Amena Owen:
I need you to speak to me about Victoria's Secret: Angel and Demons docu-series.
Kelundra Smith:
You know, as I call them, I love a scamumentary.
Amena Owen:
Come on, Kelundra, bring it back to the people.
Kelundra Smith:
And there's no greater scam than capitalism. And so-
Amena Owen:
We wish it wasn't true. We wish she was telling a lie, but it's the truth.
Kelundra Smith:
Victoria's Secret: Angels and Demons. If you don't watch not but one scamumentary this year-
Amena Owen:
This is the one.
Kelundra Smith:
It's top tier. If I'm thinking about the rankings from last year, it may almost edge out LuLaRich, almost, for me.
Amena Owen:
I can feel it though. I can feel you.
Kelundra Smith:
Let me just tell you my own personal experience with this. So if you haven't seen Victoria's Secret: Angels and Demons, it is about Lex Wexner, who is the man who acquired Victoria's Secret. He's the man who is at the top of Limited Brands. Limited brands is Victoria's Secret, Bath and Body Works, and it was Henri Bendel. So what happens in this show is we see how the Victoria Secret fashion shows and the photo shoots and that brand almost became a coverup for sexual assault and sexual harassment.
Amena Owen:
Right. Right.
Kelundra Smith:
With what was happening with the models on these sets, and how all of these different millionaires and billionaires include... Well, I won't say any names, are involved in this.
Amena Owen:
But it's some well known names on the list there.
Kelundra Smith:
Some well known names on the list. It's some very Epstein adjacent stuff happening. So anyway, what's so wild about this, Amena, is what you may not know about me is that there was a period of time where I worked for Bath and Body Works.
Amena Owen:
My, my.
Kelundra Smith:
And I will tell you that when you work for Bath, and when I worked for Bath and Body Works, this was about 10 years ago, the narrative about who Victoria was and the narrative about how this small town couple started this lingerie shop for all women, and then it got discovered and it made Victoria this wealthy woman. And isn't this so amazing? They told us that story.
Amena Owen:
Wow.
Kelundra Smith:
It's in the onboarding. They don't tell you that none of this is true.
Amena Owen:
Wow.
Kelundra Smith:
It's all lies. There is no Victoria.
Amena Owen:
She ain't even got a secret.
Kelundra Smith:
That's the secret.
Amena Owen:
That's the secret, that there ain't no Victoria.
Kelundra Smith:
It's ingrained in the way they did the employee onboarding. So as I'm watching this unfold, I'm like, Hold up now. We're thinking we're working for a small business that got acquired by a large corporation that has then expanded to become a global brand, when in fact it's all just made up.
Amena Owen:
Wow.
Kelundra Smith:
It's a brand narrative gone haywire.
Amena Owen:
That's it. That's it. And that's all. I have really enjoyed these brand take downs, these brand take down documentaries. I want to give a special shout out as well to White Hot: The Rise and Fall of Abercrombie & Fitch, because you can't watch the Victoria Secret documentary without also placing it in this historical context of what was happening in the era. What were the messages that women were being given, that women of different cultures and size, and there's all these layers there that you then place the messages of Victoria's Secret into there. We are currently watching Victoria's Secret, honestly, try to play catch up, running behind Savage Fenty and Rihanna now, because Savage Fenty was one of the first brands to really push for that true inclusion. So to see this take down of Abercrombie and Fitch, a store that I passed by in the mall all the time growing up, and was like, I hope those white people enjoy that store. I hope they have a good time in there. But that just seemed like a place I should not go in.
Kelundra Smith:
Now I never went in Abercrombie & Fitch. It's so interesting that you mentioned that because even as a kid, as a teenager, I would pass by it and that strong, horrible colonial [inaudible 01:02:54] out but I always knew I wasn't welcome. It wasn't for me.
Amena Owen:
Yep.
Kelundra Smith:
So interesting.
Amena Owen:
That message was very strong. So yes, shout out to these docu-series. Oh my gosh, Kelundra, I could talk to you forever and ever. Ah, thank you so much, Kelundra, for coming on and sharing your thoughts with the people. I know that you are doing a lot of amazing things. Tell the people where can they find you? What's next for Kelundra? What are you out here giving the people in the arts right now?
Kelundra Smith:
Thank you so much for having me. This is always so much fun. And they can find me, I'm Kelundra Smith, K-E-L-U-N-D-R-A, last name Smith. I'm the only one out there. If you find it, it's me. If you find somebody else that's a lie. So they can find me at kelundra.com on my website. I'm on Instagram. I'm on Twitter, I'm not leaving. I must witness the fall of Twitter in real time because somebody must document it.
Amena Owen:
That's right.
Kelundra Smith:
I'm on LinkedIn.
Amena Owen:
That's right.
Kelundra Smith:
And all those things. And you can see, if you look at my website and look at my social, you'll see me post about articles that I have coming out as well as when my plays will have readings and shows. I've got some things that are going on that I can't talk about right now, but if you go to my website, you'll be able to see when I announce it.
Amena Owen:
Yes. Y'all make sure I go to the socials. Follow Kelundra there and we will make sure we link to some articles as well, so that people can click on those in the show notes. Honey, Kelundra, thank you so much. You're the best.
Kelundra Smith:
Thank you.
Amena Owen:
HER with Amena Brown is produced by Matt Owen for Sol Graffiti Productions as a part of the Seneca Women Podcast network in partnership with iHeartRADIO. Thanks for listening and don't forget to subscribe, rate and review the podcast.