Amena Brown:
Welcome back to this week's episode of HER with Amena Brown, and I am all in my southern girl feelings today because we're talking about southern hip hop today with Assistant Professor of English and African Diaspora Studies at Kennesaw State University. Writer, researcher, daughter of the Black American south, author of Chronicling Stankonia: The Rise Of The Hip-Hop South, let's welcome Dr. Regina Bradley to the HER living room.
Amena Brown:
What's going down? I take all the applause. All of it. Okay. I'm giving it to you because there should be thousands of people here with us that would have been clapping. They're listening but since they can't clap for us right now I'm here using these two hands to help that. Let me [crosstalk 00:01:25].
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Well, you know what they say, where two or three are gathered.
Amena Brown:
Okay. Okay. And we're here and my husband and producer, he here. That's three of us. There's two, three of us. Right here. That's it.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
That's it.
Amena Brown:
You all, I'm so excited to have Dr. Regina Bradley here, in our HER living room because I have been following her on Twitter for a long time... I cannot remember who it was, it was another Black woman a couple years ago that was like, you all need to go follow... told a bunch of us to follow you. That's was when I started following you a couple of years a go and then when I saw you-
Dr. Regina Bradely:
What?
Amena Brown:
... talking about your book, Chronicling Stankonia, I was like, I am in desperate need of having her on this podcast. So thank you for agreeing to this. Okay. So I need to start with some basic facts and just let me tell you I have grown up mostly in the South. I moved around aa lot as a kid but I basically lived between Texas and the South. And Texas people listening... Texas is not the South and we love you. Okay? We love you.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Oh, don't start? We starting off early with violence.
Amena Brown:
Well, you're Texas. Texas is its own place. If you all live there you all know what I mean because I went to high school in Texas. Junior high and high school actually. And it has southern things but it's own place. Okay. So I lived in Texas and then just different parts of the South and Georgia obviously. I've been here over 20 years now, but my people are from North Carolina.
Amena Brown:
So when I moved from Atlanta for college, I had a friend that went to Clark Atlanta, that was from where you grew up in Georgia. Now I pronounce that Albany when I first saw it. I was like oh, okay, you're from Albany, Georgia and he was like, "That's not where I'm from." He was like, I'm from Albany, is how-
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Albany.
Amena Brown:
... That's how he told me to say it. Can you discuss why it's important to make sure we don't pronounce Albany, New York the same as Albany Georgia? Just discuss for the people.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
I mean, I'm just saying your red clay, your water, your blues ain't like ours, you know what I'm saying? So Albany-
Amena Brown:
[crosstalk 00:03:42].
Dr. Regina Bradely:
... Albany is very northeastern. You know what I'm saying? It's our sister city but I mean, I just get excited when I be like, fool where you from? Shit I'm from Albany I'm like, all right. South side raised over here.
Amena Brown:
Okay.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
And it's just different. It's just different. I feel like the ancestors live in your voice when you say Albany. You know what I'm saying?
Amena Brown:
Come on.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Through the struggle, through the triumph, the chili dogs all of it.
Amena Brown:
I need everything about this. Can you also explain to people because I feel like for a lot of people that have either never been to Georgia or aren't familiar with the state for a lot of people Atlanta is Georgia and that's everything. But Atlanta is not Georgia. There are just many other cities, communities and other layers of southern culture going on outside of the city of Atlanta. So can you talk about what's the difference between growing up in Albany versus what it is like to be in Atlanta.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
First of all, Atlanta might as well be its own state within the state because the perimeter is it's own thing. It's contained in it's own physical space. It literally has 285 to surround it. The circumference of the city but once you go OTP, outside the perimeter, you know what I mean? That's when you get "real Georgia". You know what I mean?
Dr. Regina Bradely:
It's interesting because Atlanta for folks like me who grew up outside of the perimeter it's like how folks think about New York. You know what I mean? When you want to get away from home and you want to be successful, you got to Atlanta.
Amena Brown:
That's right. That's right.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
You know what I mean? It's close enough to home. If something goes down, you can be like, all right I'm just going to hop off 75 and come back but it's big enough that folks are like, Oh, you live in Atlanta and folks don't judge you. You know what I'm saying? I'm in Atlanta. Right? But it's important because this is something I kind of talk about in the book too, is that the South isn't a monolith and what that means is, how I came up in Georgia is different than somebody in Mississippi or Alabama.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
But even within the state how I came up in southwest Georgia which is... I mean, Albany is... the Benny is a small city so to speak but it isn't nowhere near Atlanta size. It's small-time rural Georgia so fields and shit close on Sunday at four o'clock. You know what I'm saying? Everything close for church. You know what I'm saying?
Dr. Regina Bradely:
It's different than Atlanta as this urban hub. You know what I'm saying? So, it's important to kind of recognize that because it translates one way in the A doesn't mean it's going to translate the same way in the Benny, or in Waycross or in Savannah.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
So, I mean, it's just important to let folks have their own flavor and do their own thing but unfortunately because Atlanta is so internationally known, that's what folks gravitate towards. You know what I mean? Like you don't hear nobody be like, I'm going to vacation to Osila. No offense to people from Osila.
Amena Brown:
Right, right.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
... or Titi.
Amena Brown:
Okay.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Do you know what I mean? I'm just saying. That's not at the top of the list. It's no, I'm going to vacation to Atlanta. You know what I'm saying? So it's important to kind of recognize everybody has their own flavor even within the state. All that to say, the Benny is definitely different than A. We the little A.
Amena Brown:
Yes. Yes.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
We the little A.
Amena Brown:
The little A.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
[crosstalk 00:07:06] with the little A.
Amena Brown:
We love to see that. Okay. First of all, it touches me that you have written this book and you all that are listening, that are just about to go the your bookseller and buy five copies of this book. This book is so important-
Dr. Regina Bradely:
[crosstalk 00:07:26] indie.
Amena Brown:
Okay. Please and buy indie while you at it. I'm telling you favorite bookseller, but your favorite bookseller should be indie, so work on that, do that and buy five copies at the time. But what I love about this book is it's a read for people who are hip hop connoisseurs, who enjoy hip hop culture and music but that it's also something that can be used as a textbook. Right? That there could be people studying this in a classroom. So, I want to talk about the first time that you can remember hearing Outkast's music and I'll tell you what my first time was.
Amena Brown:
I know that I was in high school and there was a little concrete bench of some kind, that was in sort of the courtyard of our school where everybody hung out. And I had a friend Chris who also rapped on the side, as many of us did at this era of time, and I remember him freaking out about having heard this verse that opens with, "It's the MI crooked letter."
Amena Brown:
And as he was saying the words to us, he sang the words to us. I hadn't even heard the song myself actually first. He said the words to us because we were all studying hip hop a lot, trying to rap. This is before I realized rap wasn't going to be for me and I need to become a poet but I was still trying at this time. And so because he mentioned it to us then we all had to go home and try to see how we could find this music and listen to it. It still touches me when I hear their music today hearing how distinctly southern their voices were, on that music. So what was your first time? Your first memory of hearing this music from Outkast?
Dr. Regina Bradely:
The Martin episode, the Player's Ball. That was my very first memory of hearing Outkast and it was right at the end. So I was like, Oh, yeah. Well, I still feel like I was kind of I'm young. It was right before bedtime so to speak. You know what I'm saying? It was like, Okay, you get this last minute of Martin, and then it's time for you to go to bed.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
But my first for real, for real time, legit, what you're talking about is definitely on Goodie Mob's Black Ice, because I talk about that in the book too. But it was just like, friends, Romans, countrymen, and then lyrics were "it was a beautiful day up in the neighborhood." I was like what neighborhood we going to? Why's it so beautiful? You know what I'm saying?
Amena Brown:
Okay. Okay. Tell me everything. I want to know everything-
Dr. Regina Bradely:
[crosstalk 00:10:04] I remember classmates and friends just randomly throwing out Outkast lyrics going down the hall to class. You know what I'm saying? It was like for me coming from northern Virginia where Outkast was only a word in the dictionary at the time. I don't remember listening to Outkast like that when I was in Northern Virginia. I was in Alexandria Fort Belvoir because military brat.
Amena Brown:
Right. Same for me.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
So when I come South, in my mind I'm thinking everybody listen to the same kind of hip hop, you know what I'm saying? So I'm like, all right so if I'm listening to Bad Boy and Busta Rhymes and Wu-Tang and all of the folks who are on the radio and the DMV. Well of course that's what they're listening to in small ass, rural ass, southwest Georgia. And then I get down there and I try to connect, my classmate is like, shawty. No. That isn't who we listening to. For real.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
I remember this one dude, he was asking what happened to my little mix tapes, because you know that was the currency. You know what I mean? You could pass and they would share mix tapes. And dude was like, shawty what this deal? Who this? You aren't listening to nobody I know. He was just naming off all of these southern folks UGK, 8Ball & MJG, Three 6 Mafia, you know what I'm saying? And I'm just kind of like, I'm the new kid so that gave me at least some kind of advantage. But then they were like, she isn't even listening to our music.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
That just put me in a whole different hole so to speak so I had to dig myself up out the hole. So of course I'm listening to at the time it was Hot 106.1, it isn't there any more. Also 96.3 which is still there and I'm taking notes and making new mix tapes because I'm like, if I die now there's no coming back from the social death when I start high school. Enjoying southern rap became a life or death situation for a freshman. An incoming freshman from high school, you know what I'm saying? Who can't write about nothing so I just remember how my mixed tapes changed over time. It was like, okay so I remember one I got from D.C. I think it had Wyclef Jean on there, there was Bad Boy on there. And then it like abruptly cuts off to Tear Da Club Up Three 6 Mafia andMaster P, you know what I'm saying? And I'm like you can kind of tell this is when your girl transitioned.
Amena Brown:
Right. I mean one of the things that I really love about just this era of hip hop especially those first couple albums of Outkast, is that hip hop had so much of a regional element then. I remember being in Texas and I grew up in San Antonio, Texas because my parents were in the military too. So that's what moved us to San Antonio, but being in a city like that where a lot of people were kind of in and out It was a very transient place.
Amena Brown:
It was sort of like we didn't really know our hip hop identity all the way because we didn't have an MCs from there then but we did have DJ Screw, from that area around southern Texas time. So I remember living there and there being a very specific Texas sort of hip hop sound. And then when I moved to Atlanta for college, I moved here for college in 98, so that was the year that Aquemini came out, and if you were driving by anybody's dorm rooms, apartments, everybody's windows open playing that record.
Amena Brown:
And I think that was really the first time that I got to experience what a cultural shift a group like Outkast was bringing. I mean still Rosa Parks as a song. Its still a life changing situation with me, just the middle of that song with this fiddle-
Dr. Regina Bradely:
The hoe-down.
Amena Brown:
... hoe-down. Just the nerve to put that in the middle of a hip hop song, I was like whatever this is I really need this. So I love to hear about that because I think for us trying to be rappers, those of us who tried in the late 90s, we were emulating New York because-
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Right.
Amena Brown:
... at the time where it was like that's the sound you need to have or keep. Then to start hearing what the South was doing with hip hop gave you all this other stuff you could be doing with how you rap, with how you produce, all of that.
Amena Brown:
So okay, the other thing I want to ask you about is, were people talking about Kilo Ali when you were growing... can you discuss Kilo Ali with me because when I moved here, to Atlanta Georgia and I would ask people as you did back then, one of your first questions... you brought this up, one of your first questions to people is like, well, what rap you listening to? Who's your favorite rapper? People that are born and raised Atlanta were like Kilo Ali, and I was like, who is that?
Amena Brown:
I didn't know anything about Kilo at all. If people who are born and raised here, not people who moved here to get a job, people who were born and raised here they were children here, they were like, it's Kilo Ali for me. Can you discuss the importance of Kilo in the southern hip hop conversation?
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Oh, yeah. I mean Kilo Ali was one of the earliest introductions to hip hop sound originating in Atlanta. I mean, that's the best way to put it. You know what I'm saying? So when he comes out with Cocaine in 1990.
Amena Brown:
Okay, okay.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
You know what I mean? Before we had trap music we had Kilo Ali. You know what I'm saying? My first introduction to Kilo Ali was Baby, Baby. You know what I'm saying? Like, I need your L-O-V-E, Baby, Baby, I was like oh, okay. Then I heard boom in my car, you know what I'm saying? Show Me Love, all of these things. He is an architect for Atlanta sound. You know what I mean?
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Obviously you can't talk about Atlanta without Organized Noize, right? But you also can't talk about Atlanta without Kilo Ali, Raheem The Dream. You know what I'm saying? These folks who are taking what they found going on in Atlanta and how they grew up in these communities in Atlanta and pulling it on wax in ways that folks who were really checking for. You know what I'm saying? I get it. You know what I mean? If you really from the A, you're like Kilo is going to be on the top of your list, in minimum in your top three. At minimum. You know what I'm saying? So, I get it. I get it.
Amena Brown:
That was my moment of moving here to Georgia and having to get educated when the people were like, it's Kilo Ali and I think at the moment Regina, I didn't even want to be like I don't know who that is. I was just like oh, word. Has to go home and figure out-
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Right. You don't want to be called out. You was like, but then you'd get back to the room and be like, okay hold up, let me-
Amena Brown:
What are they talking about? Let me go listen.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
... there was no streaming back then-
Amena Brown:
Okay.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
... so you had to literally had to sit down at the radio and be like, okay, I'm ready.
Amena Brown:
Let me wait until they drop this Kilo so I can know what they talking about.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
You knew they knew were going to drop it around nine o'clock because in Albany they had the Dirty South hour, like the BOOM Shake hour. You know-
Amena Brown:
Okay, okay.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
... what I mean? So that was from 9:00 to 10:00. So Kilo Ali is going to show up at least one time in the mix. You know what I mean? And if that's your one thing you better use the hell out of it and be like, I know what you're t- and you better know it verbatim.
Amena Brown:
Okay. You got to be ready next time you can't just be out here-
Dr. Regina Bradely:
[crosstalk 00:18:10] be ready to go.
Amena Brown:
... you can't be out here not knowing. Okay, you brought up what is a very important question among hip hop heads, we normally trade, what would we say are our top five MCs. I want to narrow that question and ask you what do you feel are five southern hip hop quintessential songs.
Amena Brown:
If you could think of five southern hip hop songs that you feel like these are essential to the canon. If you're entering the conversation you need to at least know these. What would you say are-
Dr. Regina Bradely:
[crosstalk 00:18:49]
Amena Brown:
... those top five songs? Its hard to name five.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
I'll do it like this. I hate this question. I-
Amena Brown:
You just.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
... can't stand this question-
Amena Brown:
You'll just give me several.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
... because I feel like it changes every time somebody ask me this question. Okay, today I feel like UGK Pocket Full of Stones is important, Three 6 Mafia Tear Da Club Up is important. Elevators by Outkast is important.
Amena Brown:
Yes.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Just want to make sure I hit all the areas so to speak. Back That Ass Up.
Amena Brown:
Okay.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
It's canonical. Its not a lie. I guess back I'm from Georgia and Atlanta has such an influence on me I'm going back to Atlanta with this one but I feel like Cool Breeze Watch For The Hook is so important. But also put Three 6 Mafia's Late Night Tip in that conversation because gangster blues goes all the way off. But those are the ones are mainly kind of my today, today.
Amena Brown:
Okay. That's right. That's fair.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
So if your audience is like, Dr. Bradley you disappoint me I'm like, listen this changes every time somebody ask me this question but today that's who I'm going with. That's who-
Amena Brown:
Okay.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
... I'm going with today.
Amena Brown:
I respect these choices right here because I feel like you gave us a good amount of breadth. You gave us some places to go and you brought up Gangsta Boo I was like, okay when we done with this interview I'm going to have to go revisit that.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
For real. I listen to her. She laid the game quite flat on late night shows. I'm kind of just like oh, wow. But I mean regardless of what they, Back That Ass Up is pretty much going to be on my top.
Amena Brown:
Okay. Okay.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
It changed my life. It changed my life because I was at the little homecoming dance, you know what I'm saying? And we're still wilding about Pa, okay. But then folks are dancing and then all of a sudden DJ drops out the little music. You know what I mean?
Dr. Regina Bradely:
He's doing his little talking thing boom, boom, boom, and then all of a sudden you hear the beginning of Back That Ass Up and folks are just looking at each other like, what? What? And we were like, play that back-
Amena Brown:
Okay.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
... one more time.
Amena Brown:
Okay. Okay.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
And I couldn't really do nothing because it was high school, right? But when it played it in college, I had my cup. I had my little solo cup, you know what I'm saying? I had my little secret drink in there. And you'll be making your final rounds and be like all right I'm going to see you all, whoot-whoot and then you hear it come on and you like, you know what? I've got one more in me.
Amena Brown:
Okay.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
I got one more dance in me. I got one more dance in me, you know what I'm saying? So it's called forever and I am 37 now and I ain't got no Meghan the Stallion knees, you know what I'm saying?
Amena Brown:
It's not.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
... but I'm going to give you a Meghan the Stallion effort whenever I hear.
Amena Brown:
This is what I respect. Well, this is what we need, a Meghan the Stallion effort. Okay I'll try.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Effort. I'm going to give you the effort. I'm going to give you effort. Now my husband might have to pick me up, which he's had to do in the past, Mr. Bradley but I'm going to pretend it's back 98, 99 and I'm going to pretend we're taking over for the 2000s like I still got 16, 17, 20-year old knees, you know what I mean? I'm going to give you the effort, that's the one song you will always get the effort out of Regina is, Back That Ass Up.
Amena Brown:
This is what I aspire to is the Meghan the Stallion effort. That's all I have. I also-
Dr. Regina Bradely:
That's all I got.
Amena Brown:
... I want to echo your sentiment about Back That Ass Up because the last time I went to my college reunion I graduated from Spelman so we were doing the Spelman warhouse tailgate which is wild.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Warhouse.
Amena Brown:
It's wild time. Okay. So the last time I went out there they had a DJ on the Spelman side and there's always a few older alumni who are there, that are 20, some of them 30 years older than us. So when the DJ on their side drops Brick House all decorum is over.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
That window.
Amena Brown:
Its done. There's just hips and booty all over the place and my girlfriend looked at me when were at homecoming the last time before the pandemic, she turned to me and she said, you know that in several-
Dr. Regina Bradely:
That's going to [crosstalk 00:23:12].
Amena Brown:
... years this is us, to Back That Ass Up. That's exactly what she said.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
You know what is another song is too, because I feel that. I feel that and this pangea is messing us up-
Amena Brown:
Okay.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
... all because I miss homecoming. There's no more homecoming like HBCU homecoming. You know what I mean? I took my daughter to Virginia State homecoming in 2019, right? And she was looking at me crazy because I didn't go to Virginia State. My cousin went to Virginia State so it was like I didn't really know nobody but because I knew my cousin of course, and then I'm also Greek, you know what I'm saying? So it was like I got the float.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
And my daughter was like, mom do you know these people? I'm like, no, and that's the point.
Amena Brown:
Okay.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
That's the point, we can turn up. We can turn up so I agree with you. I'm going to be 50, 60 years old and somebody going to be like, what you know about this? And then its going to be these younger folks will come up in there and we're going to push the younger folks out the way and be like move this is not for you. But also like Knuck If You Buck to the conversation.
Amena Brown:
I will speak a word today about Knuck If You Buck.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Because I'm an aka-er, so I see the younger students kind of run out there, I see the young alphas run out there. And in our age group I'm like, move, move out the way. Move that isn't for you. You all are in this whistle, alphas, I be ready to fight. I'll be like where'd the whistle come from? There's no whistle but anyway Back That Ass Up and Knuck If You Buck that's going to be our Brick House at homecoming 2030, 2035.
Amena Brown:
I'm so glad that you brought up Knuck If You Buck. Now that I'm talking to you about this Regina I feel like I need a strong southern canonical playlist of hip hop and Knuck If You Buck has to be in there. I mean there is just so many-
Dr. Regina Bradely:
It's got to be in there.
Amena Brown:
... elements about that song, it's aggression in the best way. The Knuck If You Buck line, that little line it just brings so much joy to me.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
But it also erases any kind of like you were saying about the prestige. I have a Ph.D. I'm a college professor but when I hear that come on I go way back to being in college not giving a damn.
Amena Brown:
Okay.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
I'm just like, all right. You know what I mean? And it's the same thing with that. It doesn't compute. It doesn't compute. Oh, you're supposed to be Dr. Bradley when this is on. No, no, I'm not Dr. Bradley when this is on, I'm Gina May when this is on. And-
Amena Brown:
Okay.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
... we don't necessarily see eye-to-eye all the time. So I'm just going to put that out there.
Amena Brown:
I also have to submit that for me having grown up between Texas and then as an adult moving to Georgia, that booty music is also... southern booty music is a thing that I honestly feel like if I were in the Vatican and for some reason Scrub The Ground were to play, for some reason in that space, I'm out.
Amena Brown:
I have to first of all, bend down enough to get my hands on my knees. That's the first thing I have to do and I feel like I don't care if I'm wearing a blazer and I was at some work function. It's your fault you dropped Scrub The Ground. That's not on me, that's a choice you made and I have to do what has to be done when Scrub The Ground gets dropped. That's it.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
I feel the same way about scrub The Ground. I really do. That is all. Treat the Vatican like a pool party. You know what I'm saying? [crosstalk 00:27:21] I'll be like, Pope I'm sorry sir. I'm sorry but somebody decided.
Amena Brown:
And now this is a ritual I have to do.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Again Meghan The Stallion effort because I can't get down there like I used to. However, we gone try it.
Amena Brown:
I am going to try it.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
We are going to try it.
Amena Brown:
I can at least get as far as my hands being on my knees and shout out to corn bread and biscuits because I got some extra booty more than I had 20 years ago so I bring that into this moment. That's about where I have got to really stay in that zone.
Amena Brown:
I can't literally scrub the ground. I had to just accept that's the case. You're going to try. You're just going to graze the ground maybe or hover the ground but you're going to try the effort. The effort.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
I love it.
Amena Brown:
Okay, lets talk about Chronicling Stankonia. There's a couple of things I want to talk to you about right here. One of the things I want to ask you about is your experience going into academia and really focusing here on not just Black culture but southern Black culture.
Amena Brown:
What has that journey been like? Because I feel like there's been some conversation among my friends who are in academia about the amount of people who are teaching Black studies that are not Black and who are not really living in this culture acquainted with it. What was your journey like in going into academia and deciding I want to represent my people, represent the people I'm from, represent our language, represent our music? What was that like?
Dr. Regina Bradely:
So just non-Black folks doing Black studies and stuff like that. I don't have a problem with it as long as you remember you're a guest in this space. That's when we get ready to throw hands that you have some folks out here that are like well, I can... like some folks are like, I can lyrically do this and this.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Or I can give you all the facts about this particular thing. I'm like but you forget that you are guest in this space. You know what I'm saying? But I mean, it's interesting man because actually I tell folks I've been writing Chronicling Stankonia since I touched down in Albany back in 1998 I feel like. You know what I mean?
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Because I've been part of the culture. The culture has been part of me, but it wasn't until I graduate school I went to Indiana University for graduate school, for my master's, and then I went to Florida State for my PhD but going to the Midwest was a wake up call for me in realizing how southern I had truly become. You know what I'm saying?
Dr. Regina Bradely:
So I was taking a grad seminar with Dr. Porshia Molsbe, who is the OG. You don't talk about Black popular music unless you reference doctor Molsbe. Right? And we got to the section on hip hop and it was great reading and folks knew what they were talking about but I felt isolated from the conversation because who they were talking about I wasn't really listening to like that, you know what I'm saying?
Dr. Regina Bradely:
And I asked her about it and she was like, well, what are you going to do about it? And I'm like, at the time. So I keep going through the studies and I go into the English program. Of course when you think hip hop studies you don't necessarily think English but I want to shout out my dissertation advisor doctor David Ickert because I was trying to go in one direction. I think I said I wanted to do my dissertation on Black women and the church and faith in the South. And he was like, okay. Right?
Dr. Regina Bradely:
But then I took his seminar class because you got to take multiple types of seminars and I wanted to African Americanist so I took his African American literature seminar, in my final paper in the class was on TI.
Amena Brown:
Wow.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Which actually part of that paper in is in the chapter in the book on TI Like I said I've been writing this thing and I will never forget he had class and went and then he called me into his office and he was like, you need to be writing about hip hop. I'm like, I didn't know that was a thing. He was like, well we have to make it a thing.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
So my dissertation was about just hip hop in general but it wasn't until I couldn't find a job, I was adjuncting, I was desperate. I'm like you know what? I'm going to write about what I love which is the South and southern rap and then that's when the doors started opening so to speak. You know what I'm saying?
Dr. Regina Bradely:
When I went to Harvard on fellowship it was to work on this book because I was like, I'm writing about Outkast. When I got my job I used a draft from a chapter of this book. You know what I'm saying? So it was like southern hip hop opened doors for me when me trying the check of the bullet points of being a "traditional academic" you know what I'm saying? Were closing doors and slamming doors in my face. So when folks ask me about my connections to Outkast, I mean, I love them because they're brilliant. They're genius, you know what I mean?
Dr. Regina Bradely:
But the other part of it too is I feel like me and my work physically and culturally and spiritually embody that idea of being outcasted. I never fit to the academy the way folks have. As a Black woman professor for a lot of my students I'm the first Black woman professor they've had. Some students have told me I'm their first Black teacher period, you know what I mean?
Amena Brown:
Wow.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
So its like I'm consistently in this place of being outcasted but if I'm going to be outcasted I'm going the utilize it to my advantage. You know what I'm saying? So just being able to just speak through that and then coming out with Chronicling Stankonia, you know what I'm saying? I'm still kind of in shock that its out.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
I feel like I've been working on it for so long, I got contracted for the book in 2015 and its coming out six years later, you know what I mean? And I was trying the find all the ways to talk myself out of being crunk about it. I was like, okay maybe its too short, or maybe it's too academic, or maybe I didn't do this. You know what I mean?
Dr. Regina Bradely:
All these things but then I'm kind of just like well, shit's out there now. It's kind of like well, it's out there now and I've just been very fortunate to have, you have the folks who want to talk out beside of their neck, the thumb thugs, you know what I mean? But for the most part, hearing folks be like, you know what? this is the first time I've actually seen myself in a study about hip hop because I'm southern.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Makes me feel like it was worth it. Makes me feel like what I did in the book was accessible enough that it's academic but also it touches those folks who I grew up with. So all I can say... hope it answered your question. It was needed. I was sick about hearing about New York and everybody and those folks trying to use New York to validate what's going on in the South and I'm like, that's lazy. You know what I mean? I didn't want a lazy analysis of the South in hip hop. So hopefully Chronicling Stankonia isn't a lazy analysis, you know what I'm saying?
Amena Brown:
Was not a lazy analysis to me. I want to ask you about why is it important in particular for southern hip hop to be studied from an academic lens? I'm curious about that because I did an interview on a podcast a couple of years ago and the host asked me do I consider myself a southern poet?
Amena Brown:
And no one had ever asked me that but then when I looked back through my work, I mean, when you grow up in the South, when your family roots are here even when you're not intending to write from that lens, you just do. There were just certain things that were showing up in the work about the soil and the dirt and some of the food and the trees and some of those things, even in a random love poem somewhere, there's that tree that you remember from your grandmother's yard, or whatever that is and there's all those different elements that make up what it means to be from the South and then in particular the other layer of what it means to be Black and southern.
Amena Brown:
I love that that's a part of your bio that you are a daughter of the Black American South which I think is important. Why do you think its important for southern hip hop to be studied from an academic lens?
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Well, because they try to make it seem like hip hop is universal and in a way it is but how hip hop is applied to the culture is not universal. And that's what I want to make sure that the book comes across saying is that hip hop is great. I'm not taking away anything that has happened with hip hop in New York. I know that New York is the Mecca for hip hop but just because it happens in New York doesn't mean it's going to take root and blossom in the same way in Georgia soil, in Alabama soil, in Mississippi soil the way that it does in the boroughs, you know what I'm saying?
Dr. Regina Bradely:
But then I also just was like I said earlier I was just tired of hip hop studies being centered in this bi-coastal idea. That hip hop only exists on coasts and I'm like, what about everywhere else? In the same vein I'm like the way that I write about the South I'm hoping... and that's where the end of the book comes in. I'm like, I'm hoping this opens up the door.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Come to the table and eat. You know what I'm saying? I can't talk about Mississippi or Texas the way that somebody from there can. You know what I'm saying? Its important and then also there's other different regional manifestations of hip hop culture. You know what I'm saying? I want to know about the Midwest. How is it in Ohio or Detroit? And what's that look like and how does that pop off? You know what I'm saying?
Dr. Regina Bradely:
I want to read from those perspectives and then put all of that in conversation, you know what I mean? But unfortunately right now it's like this is the thing with the academy, is the academy is so slow it's always playing catch up, you know what I mean? Outside of the academy 30 years seems like a long time because we're knocking on the 30th anniversary of Tricia Rose's Black Noice, right? In the academy that's still hella young. That's almost infantile. You know what I'm saying? It's like oh, okay if you think about the long history with the academy means scholastic inquiry and then you have hip hop.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Hip hop's still extremely young in the academy but to do southern hip hop that means we're still in the womb so to speak.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
You know what I'm saying? So I'm hoping that this book will open up doors and open up more conversation to critically engage the South and also to recognize the stigmas and the biases that are associated just with the region itself. It's not necessarily just for the culture but from the region itself. The South makes people uncomfortable especially folks what aren't routed or invested in the South.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
It's the scapegoat. It's the boogieman. You know what I'm saying? Because there's that anxiety about it, then there's an assumption that the culture reflects those stigmas and those anxieties. You know what I'm saying? And then I'm like well, that might be part of it but that's not the totality of it.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Of course you're going to have racial violence and racial trauma in the South but that's not the totality of what it means to be southern and Black is to be victimized and try the find a way to escape. That's what was missing in conversations scholastically is that folks would rather pick up a Richard Wright or an Alice Walker and focus on the trauma and I'm like what about the joy?
Amena Brown:
Yes.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
The joy's what gets you through the trauma.
Amena Brown:
Come on Regina.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
What about the joy? What about the music? What about the culture? What about the idea that Black folks in the South... community is so important. You know what I'm saying? When people ask you who your people live.
Amena Brown:
Really?
Dr. Regina Bradely:
That is so often than active. Well, one if you come from a big family they want to make sure that you aren't dating nobody in the family. But also it's giving folks an idea about where you're from. You know what I mean?
Dr. Regina Bradely:
It used to get on my nerves when I was younger if I was dating a dude and I brought him home to my grandparents and my grandad would come... so my grandad was a man of very few words, you know what I mean? He would literally be like, hey, how are you doing? He would judge you on your handshake or not, you know what I'm saying? And then the next immediate question is, well, who your people with?
Amena Brown:
Okay.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
My grandparents are educators so they probably knew your people especially if you was from Albany, you know what I mean? But it was also like, let me see where I can put you at so that I can see if you're worthy enough to date my granddaughter but also, if you're worth a grain of salt period.
Amena Brown:
Right, right.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
You know what I'm saying? So I'll be like, all of those nuances, all of those sensibilities are often overlooked or not even recognized in a larger conversation about hip hop culture in general and I wanted to use those to frame why southern hip hop stands apart and why we need to study it. Also why I'm not the only one who needs to study it.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
There's this whole highlighter thing that's going on in the academy. You know what I mean? And I'm like I don't want to be the only one. That's a lot of work. That's a lot of pressure-
Amena Brown:
Right.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
... because that means you need to know everything. That's impossible, you know what I'm saying? I want to be one of the ones... you know what I mean? So I'm hoping that Chronicling Stankonia opens the door. There are a shit ton of new younger scholars who are still in graduate school, who are just getting started, who are brilliant who are thinking about the South and southernness and how it relates to hip hop and just music. I'm like just use me as the stepping stone. Don't use me as the gatekeeper. You know what I'm saying?
Amena Brown:
[crosstalk 00:41:08].
Dr. Regina Bradely:
I don't want to be no gatekeeper. That's too much work. You've got to bitter to be a gate keeper. I mean, where's [crosstalk 00:41:18]? You didn't do this. The only way I be like, you didn't do this, if you're legit or just was lazy with it. Then I'll be like, come on folk this is... if you're out here legitimately breaking new ground, I don't got nothing to say. I be like, oh okay. But if you lazy then okay, I might be a little bit of a gatekeeper. I'm not a gatekeeper, I feel like I'm a bouncer at a club. I don't want-
Amena Brown:
Okay.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
... to be gatekeeper I feel like I want to be the bouncer at the club. I'm going to be like, let me see how you get in.
Amena Brown:
Let me look at you and your friends before you get in.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
[crosstalk 00:41:49]. Who are your friends? Are they on the list?
Amena Brown:
That's what we need is a bouncer honey. That's what we need is a culture bouncer, Regina. Yes.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Bouncer. I don't need no gatekeeper just give me bouncer. You know what I'm saying?
Amena Brown:
I live please. I think this is one of the reasons... and you all listening, this is one of the reasons that I think your work is so important because-
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Thank you.
Amena Brown:
... I think its important for us to be able to look at I think there lots of layers to this. Especially when I got to that last section of your book, when you're expounding upon this phrase that, many of us in the South were just so exhilarated to hear that the South still has something to say. You added that still into that-
Dr. Regina Bradely:
[crosstalk 00:42:40].
Amena Brown:
... phrase, that many of us remember watching on that award show, right? It was Andre 3000 saying, "The South got something to say." And I just felt like, we do. And getting to the end of your book and you saying, "And that's still true. The South still has something to say."
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Still has something to say.
Amena Brown:
Getting to the end of your book and reading that it made me hope for two things Regina. It made me hope that yes, that we will see more books like yours. That we will see more of this kind of academic intellectual analysis of this music and this art. As a hip hop culture fan, I want to see more MCs able to return to where they're from, and let their voices sound like that and let the slang of whatever that area is sound like that.
Amena Brown:
I would love to see that return to hip hop even more too because I think that was beautiful for those of us that were growing up in the 90s. That was beautiful for us to hear that Snoop doesn't sound the same as 8Ball and MJG sound as Method Man sounds as crucial conflict sounded. Everybody had this different way they approached it because they felt like they had to take their city or region on their back and carry it into their music.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
Right.
Amena Brown:
And just reading your analysis and your storytelling here I was like man I hope we see a return of that too.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
I think the initial challenge which is something I'm not equipped to write about. This is why I'm saying I'm trying to kick the door open for these folks coming up behind me is that, we're in the era of the digital South now. You know what I'm saying? It's not just physically restricted to what's going on regionally.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
I mean, the region is accessible by everybody, you know what I'm saying? From the explosion of trap to international hip hop genre to folks from New York borrowing and some folks straight up stealing from the South. You know what I'm saying? I think that all of that is important in how we renegotiate what regional identity means to the culture. But I will say that, the way that folks represent it from where they were from, the hyper locality, you know what I'm saying? Of region in 90s and early 2000s isn't necessary because we got social media. You know what I'm saying?
Dr. Regina Bradely:
It's not like we have to wait to her an album to understand the super local drops that people give in their music. Now it's kind of like, all right let me go to Google Earth. Let me go on Tik Tok. Let me see what it actually looks like, where that active imagining spaces where the way the imagination takes root is different, because of social media. You know what I'm saying? And I'm not the one to write about that because I didn't grow up in a social media era of southern rap. You know what-
Amena Brown:
Right.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
... I mean? So that's somebody else's project. It isn't my project. I will tell you quick, I'll be like, look, I can't talk about some of these younger folks man. My cut off date is 2008 when I started my PhD.
Amena Brown:
Come on [crosstalk 00:45:45].
Dr. Regina Bradely:
PhD program. I mean, listen don't be out here having me looking a hot mess, you know what I'm saying? Ass out, because, I'm going to look at you like, No, I can't. Some of the newer folks and I'd be like I listen to them is passing but I'm not going to be able to give you an analysis like I could give you an analysis about Outkast. You know what I mean?
Amena Brown:
Right.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
That's somebody else's career. That's somebody else's work and I ain't trying to take that because I can't do it. Know your limits, know your boundaries.
Amena Brown:
Okay. Okay. And that's how you open the door for others because you're like this is my stuff that I'm going to do. You going to come along-
Dr. Regina Bradely:
This is my area.
Amena Brown:
... [crosstalk 00:46:21] stuff to do. Okay. I get it. Regina thank you so much for joining me on the podcast-
Dr. Regina Bradely:
It was fun. Thank you [crosstalk 00:46:28].
Amena Brown:
... for talking to us about all this southern hip hop. I hope you all were taking all the notes so that you all can number one, buy a few copies of this book because five is a good number. You could go to your favorite independent bookseller, buy five of them. You got one then you got four that you could give to somebody. It's like a gift.
Amena Brown:
Okay. Work on that, and then you could listen to this music. So while you reading the book you can be educated. But Regina thank you for this work you are doing for shining a light on the South and on hip hop culture here for even just hearing your voice and the southernness in your voice and in the writing in your book. That gives a lot of joy to those of us who are from down here. So thank you so much.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
That means that I did my job. The South still has something to say and I just hope that folks realize that we're talking to each other. You know what I'm saying? And that's what's equally important. This one thing I was very clear about is I knew I had to write somewhat academically but I didn't want it to be the totality of what I was saying.
Dr. Regina Bradely:
And it seems like I struck a good enough balance that we could have conversation like this. You know what I mean? Because these are the type of conversation that I want to have about the work. You know what I mean? So thank you for the opportunity to chop it up with you and laugh. I mean, all that's part of southern hip hop too. So just thank you for the opportunity as well.
Amena Brown:
Thank you again so much to Dr. Regina Bradley for joining me in bringing intellectual conversation about southern hip hop to the table. I'm just sorry that she and I could not have had biscuits which probably would have been one of our southern dishes of choice, had we literally been in the HER living room together.
Amena Brown:
You can learn more about Dr. Bradley's work at her website redclayscholar.com. You can also follow regina on twitter @redclayscholar. And if you forget all this stuff that I just said remember you can go to amenabrown.com/herwithamena. The show notes are there with links to some of this music as well as links to check out more of Dr. Regina Bradley's work. And if you aren't following me on social media on Twitter, on Instagram @amenabee you should. Go follow. Let's be friends.
Amena Brown:
For this week's edition of Give Her a Crown and in honor of our conversation in this episode about southern hip hop I want to shut out one of my favorite rappers from the South Grammy Award winning hip hop artist Rapsody. Born and raised in North Carolina, Rapsody's rap career has been on the rise for many years.
Amena Brown:
Right now my favorite album of hers is her latest album Eve and my favorite song from the album is Whoopi where she raps over a sample of one of my favorite jazz songs, Watermelon Man by Herbie Hancock. Each of the songs on Eve are named for a Black woman hero of Rapsody's. You should definitely give this a listen. Rapsody, thank you for bringing your southernness, your storytelling and for honoring hip hop culture through your music. Rapsody, give her a crown.
Amena Brown:
HER with Amena Brown is produced by Matt Owen from Sol Graffiti Productions as a part of the Seneca Women Podcast Network in partnership with iHeartRadio. Thanks for listening and don't forget to subscribe, rate and review the podcast.