Amena Brown:
Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of HER. I am your host, Amena Brown. Thanks for coming back into the living room with me and actually I got a story that I wanted to tell you all that I hope you will be able to identify with in some way, but I was like, "You know what? I need to share this in our living room of sorts." I hope you brought your hummus and your snacks while we talk about all of this.
Amena Brown:
I have a really exciting brand partnership that I can't wait to tell you all about, but I can't tell you about yet as of this recording anyway. In the meantime, I will tell you part of it does involve a photo shoot and possible video shoot as well, and that also involves a wardrobe stylist. I've had a wardrobe stylist before shout out to Michelle Norris, but that was very different because Michelle would style me per the event, but I would go shopping with Michelle because it would help me to know like what to wear and different things that she would pick for me to try on that I would normally pick for myself.
Amena Brown:
This is one of the first times, maybe just the first time, because I really can't think of another time for me, career-wise where this has happened. This is the first time I'm working with a stylist and they just needed my measurements and they're going to pick all of the clothes and then I'm going to get to said shoot situation and try on the clothes and see what works. A part of this meant that my husband had to take out a tape measure and measure my bust, my hips and my waist. It was a really interesting exercise because I think there's only one other time that I've done these types of measurements.
Amena Brown:
I think it was for something I was trying to buy online and they needed you to measure yourself so that they could make sure the sizing was going to be accurate. I haven't done that in a long time. It's been years. And as soon as my husband took that tape measure out and we were starting to write down the numbers to tell to the team of people that are working on this shoot, I started to feel really nervous and a little bit anxious.
Amena Brown:
And I realized that a part of that is because I still have this thing in my mind, this is something I've been working to unlearn, but I still have this thing in my mind that when it comes to my body, there's always this question of how is my body measuring up? And in this moment where now you have a number, not just how your body might look in the mirror, how you feel about your body when you look at it, when you're just standing there with no clothes on, and you're just looking at your body for what it is, for where it is, there are no spanx, there's no underwear, there's nothing, just you there.
Amena Brown:
I think a part of what was happening with me was I had gotten to a point where I was no longer associating numbers with my body as much. I made a decision a couple of years ago to not weigh myself as often, to not make even my workout routine connected to what the scale says, that my desire to want to work out is because I want to be healthy. I also wanted to be stronger. That those two things didn't necessarily have anything to do with what the number on the scale said.
Amena Brown:
To go through this moment of measuring the three parts of my body, I can say, and maybe you would feel the same about your body, measuring these three parts that there is this concern, even as I'm trying to unlearn it of are they too big or for certain areas of the body, should it be smaller? After we finished all the measurements and got everything all typed up and sent off to the team of people that needed this information, I realized how vulnerable it is to think about measuring our body.
Amena Brown:
I wanted to share that with you all, because I wanted to say these words out loud, because I think it's something that we should talk about. And I'm really thankful for all of the body positivity activists that are out there that are continuing to bring up these types of conversations and help us think through our fatphobia, help us think through the ways that we don't love and accept and embrace the bodies that we have.
Amena Brown:
And after sending off this email, I realized the only other measurements I really have to compare my body to are Sir Mix A Lot's measurements that he mentioned in Baby Got Back when he said that he wanted a woman who was 36, 24, 36. And at the time that I'm hearing, Sir Mix A Lot's song, I'm a teenager. I don't even know if at the time I was hearing that song, if I even knew what my measurements would have been for the band of a bra.
Amena Brown:
I was probably that young, and that seemed to be this standard in a way, that supposed to have these certain curves here, but these other parts of the bodies should be a certain size small. I wanted to give you all an encouragement that I actually gave to myself as I've been really personally working on improving my self-talk about my body, and I had to give myself the talk that I have measured myself because that information is needed for a project that I'm working on, but I am not working on my body or looking at my body to measure up to anything or anyone.
Amena Brown:
That there isn't this particular standard that has to be met as far as my body is concerned. That the only dream body or goal body is my body at its healthiest and really my body at its current place. That this body is my dream body too, because it is doing all the things for me that a body can do for you during the day. It's doing those things that I want to show this body gratitude. That I want to thank this body for its scars, that I'm going to have scars on his body.
Amena Brown:
I'm going to have stretch marks, and that this body will experience change that maybe this body is not the body that I was in 10 years ago or 20 years ago and maybe for some of us, the body has stayed the same, but maybe there are still things about it that you don't love or that you wish were different. I had to give myself that talk after putting the tape measure away and say to myself, "This body is good. This body is beautiful with its stretch marks, with its folds."
Amena Brown:
I want to say to you, whatever body you have, it's beautiful, whatever you do for yourself health wise, as far as how you decide to exercise or how you decide to eat. All of those things are decisions that hopefully you're able to make more so from a place of, "Hey, this is the exercise I want to do. This is the type of eating that gives my body fuel and nutrition. This is the type of eating that gives me a way to enjoy how good this type of food tastes."
Amena Brown:
Or whatever those reasons are, but those reasons do not have to be connected to the fact that something's wrong with the body that you're in and that you can accept this body. I want to say shout out to back fat and shout out to under boob and shout out to pooch of a tummy. Shout out to your thighs, whatever size they are. Shout out to your ankles, however they express themselves. Give your body some love today, give your body some good words. Your body is going to hear enough negative words from society and from other ignorant people.
Amena Brown:
Your body does not have to hear those negative words from you. That's just the lesson that I am still learning and something that came up as I was trying to take a look at my body's measurements. As of the day this episode released, we are 13 days from election day, which means if you are listening to this, not on a Tuesday, then we are less than 13 days from election day. This is your reminder, if you haven't voted already, please try to vote early if you can. Yes, your vote is important. Yes, your vote counts.
Amena Brown:
We want to make sure that all of us do what we have to do to make sure our voices are heard. From time to time, I like to do some poetic readings in here and this one is from someone who really inspires me, Megan Thee Stallion. If you're hearing that name and you're like, "I don't know who Megan Thee Stallion is." There are many ways that you can find out about Megan Thee Stallion's music, her music videos, everything.
Amena Brown:
Megan has been through a lot lately and she has survived some really tough circumstances, so I wanted to give her a shout out by turning some of her Instagram captions into a poetic reading. Every now and then I like to do a segment I call poetic readings and I like to take different things that you might not think of as poetic and make poetic readings of them. For today's poetic reading, we want to thank our modern poet, Megan Thee Stallion. This is a poetic reading of Megan Thee Stallion's Instagram captions.
Amena Brown:
"Today was a good day. Just got her hair done, trying to get her groove back. Another fresh set, thee hot girl. She bad as an MF. She still ratchet. Please know that you are perfect in your own way and never let anyone dim your light, because you don't fit in an image that pleases them. The goal is to be legendary, honey. Ain't nobody tripping, because the money already made. If you don't jump to put jeans on baby, you don't feel my pain. We ain't never give up. We doing everything they said we wouldn't. Rich, but I'm ratchet living room hottie. Midnight hotties y'all ready?"
Amena Brown:
Thank you, Megan Thee Stallion, for your words of poetic inspiration. This week, my guest is singer songwriter, Jennifer Chung. This episode is a part of the HER archives and was recorded in the before times before the pandemic. I had a great time talking with Jennifer about how she crafts her songs, and if you have not checked out Jennifer Chung's music, you will definitely want to after you hear our conversation and you'll get a little bit of a sneak peek of some songs from her EP after all. Check out my conversation with Jennifer Chung. I'm so excited to have singer songwriter, Jennifer Chung, who also is the co-founder of WATS Media and also among other things is a social media strategist. Welcome to the HER With Amena Brown podcast, Jennifer Chung. Woo. This is me, Jennifer. I always clap.
Jennifer Chung:
Thank you so much for having me again.
Amena Brown:
I always clap because there's going to actually be some applause in here, but I clap because when we're recording, you get a chance to also experience that I'm trying to clap for you.
Jennifer Chung:
Thank you.
Amena Brown:
Y'all, I am so excited to have Jennifer on the podcast and any of you that have been following my other podcast that I did for my book, the limited edition podcast I did for How To Fix A Broken Record, you may be familiar with Jennifer Chung already from that and some of you may just be familiar with Jennifer Chung because she's amazing and you've already been listening to her music, but I'm so excited that you are joining me on the podcast today, Jennifer, we have so much to talk about.
Amena Brown:
If you haven't listened to it, you should go back and listen to How To Fix A Broken Record podcast, episode five Lessons in Adulting, you will get a chance to hear some different things about Jennifer there because we talked a little bit about your music, but we're going to get a bit more in depth. Jennifer was actually at my house. We were working on another project. She and her husband and me and my husband, we were all at the house, partly working and then partly like, "Catch me up on these things and tell me what's going on about that."
Amena Brown:
And I was like, "Gosh, I got to have Jennifer on the podcast." I'm so glad you're here. I was trying to remember, Jennifer, how did we actually meet each other? Do you remember that?
Jennifer Chung:
I feel like it had to have been through John a hundred percent. I don't know if it was because we went to an event that you both were throwing. You're so kind that you probably had found out that John had met someone, and you probably reached out just being your kind self. And I remember you invited me to do a show that usually you hosted, but you weren't going to be there.
Amena Brown:
That's right.
Jennifer Chung:
But you had gracefully invited me to be a part of it. I feel like that might've been the first time I pseudo met you.
Amena Brown:
I think that might be right, and I was very sad. This was when my husband and I were still hosting our open mic at Urban Grind and I wanted you to feature so bad, and then it turned out the day that I had asked you, I was going to have to go out of town and I was like...
Jennifer Chung:
That was such a good experience and honestly it was probably one of the first shows I did it in Atlanta, so I really appreciate you even giving me a chance to show some people in Atlanta what I do.
Amena Brown:
I'll tell you though, because since I wasn't there that night, I didn't get to hear you sing live that night. But the first time that I can remember hearing you sing live was at 529 here in Atlanta, when you and your husband, John, who I have known all this time under his artist name Joules and some friends of yours did this show called The Flip Side and Matt and I, I forget where we were going that night. We had another thing we had to go to, and then we were trying to hurry up and leave that to make your show.
Amena Brown:
We got there and that place was packed. It was so packed. There wasn't even enough room for us to inside the venue. We were looking at y'all performing from outside in the entryway of the building. That was the first time that I ever heard you sing live and my life has been changed. My life has been changed.
Jennifer Chung:
Thank you. Honestly, it's been a huge adventure and it's really cool that you also got to see John and I create events, just like you and your husband do. Obviously, a lot of our community has to do with a lot of Asian Americans and it's something that we're still trying to break through in the city.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. I really appreciated that about The Flip Side, just the push to celebrate Asian American creatives, Asian-American artists. I loved everything. Every artist I saw, I was writing down all the names like, "Wants to book this person. Wants to work with them." I love, and not only the way that you perform, I've joked with Jennifer in the past, she did this cover of Khalid's Location and to me, that's your song. When I finally heard him sing it, I was like, "What's he doing singing Jennifer's song?"
Jennifer Chung:
I still have to do a cover of it and upload it online. I literally only performed it at that one show and never did it again.
Amena Brown:
I really need that in my life, so I really need you to get that on a video. Since we're talking about create, I was really interested to hear more from you as a fantastic performer and also as someone who you can cover other artists' songs and you also write your own songs. Do you remember the first song that you ever wrote? Were you writing songs as a child or did that come to you later in life?
Jennifer Chung:
I remember when I was a kid, I would literally write my own songs. Like let's say my mom yelled at me and I got in trouble, I would start singing like my life was a musical and my mom would be so upset that I was singing, but she wasn't that good at English. She probably just thought I was just singing some random song, but for me, I was singing so dramatically as if this was my valid piece of the musical, where I was at war with me and just making up words. And I think from then on that encouraged me to go to music whenever I'm feeling an extreme of a certain emotion.
Amena Brown:
What is it like to write a song? How do your songs start or begin? I feel so crazy asking this question because...
Jennifer Chung:
No. Okay. I technically was learning piano, but I really didn't learn it that well. I think my piano teacher and I just really hung out and she encouraged my singing a lot. So when I start writing songs, it starts with words, what I'm feeling I put it into musical notes and I record it through Voice Memo. Then from there, many of my songs I have written it from beginning to end and then I'll sing it to an accompanist or I'll sing it to a producer and they'll make a beat around it. But I also hear music in my head.
Jennifer Chung:
I'll hum the melody that's supposed to compliment my vocal melody. There are also times, very few times where I'd hold the guitar and I'd start strumming and then write a song through that way. But there are a couple of songs on my first album that I wrote with guitar first, but usually it's the lyrics first.
Amena Brown:
Wow. I'm very fascinated by the song writing process, because even though I also write something that's lyrical as a poet, it's just so different than the structure of songwriting and the type of economy with your words that you have to have in order to express an emotion, but in this hook or in the way the verse or the bridge is structured. Tell my listeners a little bit more about how you ended up sharing your work through social media, through YouTube.
Amena Brown:
When I think back about this, Jennifer, I'm like, "My gosh." You were sharing your work on this platform at a time that there weren't even a lot of people at that time sharing their work that way. Talk to me about how you go from here's this little girl singing these songs when she's in trouble to finding this audience for these songs that you had written.
Jennifer Chung:
Yeah. I would say when I started posting videos on YouTube, I wasn't sharing any of my original work. It was just me sharing that I loved certain songs that people were coming out with and I wanted to show to others how I sounded singing them. It was like the wild West, you didn't know what YouTube was, except that people were uploading stuff. I just decided to, and I think it was all in God's timing that I uploaded when I did and I was able to build a community slowly but surely.
Jennifer Chung:
And as an artist, I think that was such a blessing because when I did come out with my first song, I already had an audience that was engaged, but it was definitely scary to upload my first original song because then that's what's going to set the pace of what people have... People may have expectations of what that's going to be like, especially with the song choices that I had made, but I think it was a blessing to start off so early and just letting my music go because I've met so many artists now that are so talented and they have such great music, but they literally hide it and they hoard it because they think it's not ready or it's not perfect.
Jennifer Chung:
I always let them know, I don't release these songs because I think they're perfect. I release these songs because I know it's time, and I think that comes with time and knowing that what I release now may be years from now, I'll be like, "Why did I release that? What was I thinking?" But at least I let it go and I can give myself and my listeners an opportunity to realize that I've grown from that moment.
Amena Brown:
That's was one of the things I really love about your music and about you as a person, having engaged with you personally and in professional environments. I love that about your brand as an artist too, you're very authentic and genuine.
Jennifer Chung:
I appreciate that.
Amena Brown:
That's a huge thing to me because I think especially being someone who had this career trajectory that started out on a social media platform, I think there can be this temptation to have to succumb to whatever air quotes anybody is supposed to look like or be like or whatever. And I love even about following you on social media that you're like, "Hey guys, this is me. This is me being myself. This is who I am. This is me learning to love who I am. Learning to love how I am. Learning to accept myself just the way I am."
Amena Brown:
I put out on social media to see if people had any questions they wanted to ask you, and this was a really good question I wanted to get your thoughts on. Tamisha F. from Facebook. She wanted to know, can you share more about the lessons you learned as a creative after the Photoshop incident you had with a recent magazine cover that you were on? Can you tell us more about that?
Jennifer Chung:
Well, first I learned how much it still affects me when people ridicule me about my appearance, whether it was intentional or not, but also it was a reminder of how deeply ingrained certain beauty standards are, especially in my Korean American community, not even Korean American, it's my Korean culture. There are certain standards that the people have to live by, not just women, but men too. And South Korea is known to be one of the capital countries that promote plastic surgery.
Jennifer Chung:
I'm proud to say that I haven't gotten any plastic surgery done because it was my choice and I totally empower anyone who feels like they want to do that for themselves, but so many times people feel pressured to do that. I've had conversations with friends who felt pressured that they had to do it in order to be accepted, but reality is there are so many things that people think that you have to do to be accepted that it's an endless cycle. You're always going to want to nip and tuck this or change that.
Jennifer Chung:
Going from that, I practiced grace though to the people who were behind that magazine because I know they meant it well, they meant to serve me well and they thought that this would make me happier or make me more accepted by their demographic. But I had to let them know that it wasn't okay because the original reason why I decided to do that magazine interview was because they wanted me to encourage the youngsters. That's the word they said. The youngsters that are up and coming, and I did not want the audience to believe that them photoshopping me was something that I wanted.
Jennifer Chung:
I made it clear to the publishers and I had to at least post it on Instagram and to let my followers know in case there are some people who ran into the article in the Bay Area, because that's not what I'm about. I really do have goals to stay as honest as I can, and one of my best compliments that I feel I get from being on YouTube and people meeting in person is that, "My gosh, you're the same. Just as I thought you'd be online and in person."
Jennifer Chung:
I might have my bad days, but for the most part, I feel like I'm genuinely being myself, and since I had posted that, I hadn't posted anything on Instagram and I'm just giving it space for people to really read that in case they run into the magazine. I've also learned that the community is so supportive and I've gotten so much love, and I think it resonated with a lot of people too, because I'm just being honest. I didn't think that I could just get away with my face being completely altered and thinking like, "That's fine. That's how I should look."
Jennifer Chung:
It's like, "No, that's not how I look and that's not who I am." It was a huge growing experience and how it's always going to be a battle for the rest of my life to choose to love myself and to hopefully empower others to choose to love themselves too.
Amena Brown:
I love that, Jennifer, because I read the post myself and I was just like, "Yes." It's put to words the things that so many people feel. Whatever it is that in our different cultural backgrounds or according to whatever that standard of beauty is. We need that encouragement. We need to be reminded that you're not just okay, you are beautiful and worth it as you are, and that that's our work. Is to accept who it is we are. And of course, like you said, each person's going to decide what's empowering to them in that journey.
Amena Brown:
Nobody can decide that for each person, but it's beautiful to start that journey for yourself of, "This is who I am. This is how I love me." Okay, I want to talk a little bit more about writing songs. This is a curious question that I have. Some of these questions are just my nerdy stuff that I want to know from you. I know that you've had experiences co-writing songs with other people, and I would love for you to share a little bit more about what that process is like. As a poet, it's hard for me to imagine co-writing a poem with someone.
Amena Brown:
I'm always curious when I have friends who are songwriters and also write with others, describe what that process is like and how's the give and take between you and maybe the other writer or other writers.
Jennifer Chung:
Sure. I think that everyone works very differently, but for me personally, when it has come to working with collaborators who... For example, in December, I had written for another artist and it wasn't for my project. I let be very open. The producer had created a melody and I asked the artist, "What's the story that you want to share?" And from that, I used the melodies to let the words come out of me. That's where I was able to start creating the foundational base of the lyrics and where that was headed.
Jennifer Chung:
I tend to write choruses first, actually, and then from there I have to pull out versus, but it's definitely give and take and being open to what other people have to say. Personally, I think I work better if I don't have someone telling me how to write the lyrics. I think I am a lyricist by heart, and I'm interested in seeing what it's going to be like if I write with another writer writer, because I think it'll be good practice for me because as of now, I'm like, "No, no, these aren’t my words. These are the words that are going to be solidified."
Jennifer Chung:
And if you listen to my songs, you'll notice that I tend to rhyme a lot. In a way I feel like it has this poetic rhyming scheme to it. But I think because vocally it flows through me and singing wise, it just comes naturally to me.
Amena Brown:
I want to ask a question from Instagram. Naynay wants to know how do you maintain vocal health as a singer? This is a great question. Do you have a routine, a regimen? Are there things you would recommend to other listeners who may also be singers?
Jennifer Chung:
Sure. Ever since I was young, I knew that I wanted to sing for Disney one day. I don't know if that's going to happen yet, but it's still in my bucket list and it's the princesses and the musicals, they sounded very clean and don't sound too hoarse. Ever since I was younger, I told myself, "I'm never going to smoke." And I haven't ever smoked a cigarette and it just doesn't appeal to me because I don't want to lose the vocal quality that I have right now. Even though I listen to someone like Adele or Alicia Keys and wish I had that husky tone, it's just not part of my vocal regimen.
Jennifer Chung:
Also, I've heard, I was told that whispering is actually not good for you, so I don't whisper very often. And even if I'm yelling or shouting at the top of my lungs, whether it's at a basketball game or whatever, I always support myself with my diaphragm. And if I lost my voice the night before, I did something wrong and when I'm practicing singing, if I feel any pain I stop, because it shouldn't hurt. That means I'm placing things incorrectly and also it's good to stay away from dairy on days of performances. And personally, for me, I don't actually like to eat before I sing, and that could be all day.
Jennifer Chung:
So if I have a performance where I know I'm going to have a long set, I actually fast the whole time and maybe drink water and tea just because I don't want to burp and that's about it.
Amena Brown:
I need to take some notes, honey. I don't eat before performances. Once I get within a two, three-hour threshold, whatever food I'm going to eat, I need to eat it before that time. Then I can't eat anymore, but that's actually just for nerves because I just... Speaking of YouTube, I've always been like, "Before there was YouTube, you're just afraid, I'm going to throw up on stage." That's what I was afraid of. Then once YouTube came along, I was like, "I really can't have somebody capturing footage of me throwing up on stage now.
Amena Brown:
I just have to." Mm-hmm (Negative). I have to stick with it. I have to stick with it. And I learned after getting laryngitis the first time as a performer, that whispering is bad for your voice. I had no idea. I was at some event and the singers were like, "Yeah, you're going to need to stop whispering. If your voice is gone, you either need to stop talking or talk on your regular voice. The whispering is actually making it worse for you." I had no idea about that.
Jennifer Chung:
If there's a moment that you're able to just not speak, maybe do some vocal rest every once in a while.
Amena Brown:
You know that's hard for me. As you were saying it I was like, "Yeah, that's true. That would give me a chance to contemplate my life and things." And then I was like, "Oh. I’m going to have-"
Jennifer Chung:
And carry around a post-it note to show people, "I'm on vocal rest today. Feel free to text me."
Amena Brown:
That would be so hard for me. You know how much I love talking. That would be just.... Gosh. The couple of times, which I really need to have a better vocal regimen myself, because now that I've been performing so long, sometimes the end result of me getting a cold is laryngitis now, if my voice gets really tired. I really do need to try this voice rest thing, but I just love talking so much. The times I've had laryngitis and I couldn't talk, everything inside of me was like, "I have so much to say everybody."
Jennifer Chung:
I understand. Well, as long as we continue supporting the way that we talk with our diaphragm and also, it's not so bad to strengthen your head voice. Sometimes if you want to just talk up here instead of talking down here. Just lift it up over here and talk to people like you're a Disney princess.
Amena Brown:
I don't even know about a head voice. I'm getting to educated. Let me ask you this also, because I know that not every singer writes songs and then not all songwriters are super great singers. There are some people who are really great songwriters, but then their songs end up with people that have the really great voice. Why do you think songwriting is so important? It's like we have an idea in our mind of why singing itself is important for all of the emotional connection that we have to our music, to our memories and those different things.
Amena Brown:
But we don't often think about who is writing some of the songs that we really love. Why is the song writing so important?
Jennifer Chung:
Man. Songwriting, it's such a gift to be able to share what you feel. You know. You're literally sharing your feelings and your thoughts and people receive them, and it's one thing when people are like, "It sounds nice." But it's another thing when someone's like, "It feels nice." I think that's why, even if there's vocalists who don't right, if they can sing it as if they did, that's how you know that they’re a performer and they're able to engage to the music and deliver it in a way that it's meant to be.
Jennifer Chung:
Songwriting for me is so important, because I know as I get older, my voice isn't going to be the same. Like when I’m at the age, hopefully of 80 years old, I might not be able to sing the way that I do now, but I can still continue to write and I hope that I'll continue to write for other people too. It's a gift right now to be able to sing and to be able to perform live, but I'm sure that that'll get exhausting too, as I get older, older, but I hope to be inspired by life and write for other artists and use my gifts, not just to continue my own platform.
Amena Brown:
I love that and I love as an artist, having all of these layers of what you do that can really last you through these different seasons of time. I even think about Maxwell and his first album that he put out, I think he was 23 years old and he said his goal was to make music at 23 years old, that if he were in his 60s or 70s, that he would feel no shame singing it.
Jennifer Chung:
Yeah.
Amena Brown:
I thought that was such a great thought because there are some things that maybe when I was 22 or 23, gosh. If I went back and looked at some of those poems I was writing, I'd be like, "No." I want to edit some of those. But there are some things that as a songwriter, I feel like because music can have this very timeless quality, there are these things that you can put out into the world that somebody 30 years from now maybe listening to and still resonate with, which is one of the things I really love about music.
Jennifer Chung:
Yeah. How beautiful is that, that someone could connect to it years from now or connect to it even maybe... Maybe there are certain songs where you first listen to and you're really not that into it but you keep hearing it and then there's a moment where it clicks, the words just click to you.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. There's some songs you have to grow into as well.
Jennifer Chung:
Yes. Experiences.
Amena Brown:
Where you're like, "I see why." Like there is some music my mom loved when I was growing up. My mom loved Frankie Beverly and Maze, when I was growing up. She just listened to their tape until it broke almost and I was just dying of boredom. Please rescue me from Frankie Beverly and Maze. And for some reason I got into my late 20s and I was like, Frankie Beverly and Maze are amazing. This is some of the best music anybody ever made."
Amena Brown:
I'm like, I don't know if it's your palette has to change or broaden maybe as you get older or if it's just some resistance we have sometimes just to what we deem our parents' music to be and then we get older and we understand a little bit more about life.
Jennifer Chung:
Yeah.
Amena Brown:
Okay. I want to talk about your songs and this is a new thing that I've never done on the podcast before, Jennifer. I'm so excited that I'm trying this with you and it's going to be great because it's basically me getting a chance to share with the listeners just a little bit of what your music sounds like. I want to talk through a couple of the songs from your latest mini album After All. If you're listening right now, it's okay if you want to just pause this and just go download After All right now, that's fine.
Jennifer Chung:
Check it out.
Amena Brown:
We welcome you to do that and then you can come back and we'll talk through these things, but I want to specifically go through two of these songs and just play a couple of clips from these and Jennifer, I want to tell you what I love about these songs and then I would love to hear your story of what's behind the song. How did the songs get written? What's been your experience now, not only after having recorded this music, but also performing it live for an audience? From After All, what we want to listen to first is the song, Take It One Day at a Time. Let's listen to this clip.
Recorded voice:
(Singing). Why me? Won't somebody please. Take my burdens away. I can't do this today. You've got to hold on. Hold onto what you believe in. Weather through every season. Take it one day at a time.
Amena Brown:
Y'all, are you in your feelings? Because I feel like you should be in your feelings. If you're listening to Take It One Day at a Time, you should be in your feelings. Let me tell you something, Jennifer, that I don't know, even though we are friends in real life outside of the podcast, I don't know that I ever shared this with you. The beginning of 2018 was a really, really hard time for me and for us, for my husband and I personally and professionally. I had created a couple of years ago, this playlist on Apple Music called Healing Tunes.
Amena Brown:
Every now and then if I listened to a song that was really soothing to my soul, I would just chunk it into that playlist. It's hours of music now, and I listened to this song, Take It One Day at a Time at a time that I was very sad, very full of grief, very depressed. And I added it to my Healing Tunes playlist, and I still listen to it during times that I need to be reminded to take that space. It was so beautifully written and it had so much space in it.
Amena Brown:
To me, the way you sang it and the way you approached even the gentleness with which you sang some of the parts of the song, it is really one of my favorite songs of yours. Tell us more, how did this song get written?
Jennifer Chung:
Well, I would say that growing up, I've definitely been exposed to my mother battling through depression and she's a single mom, and I think it slowly became a part of my life as I grew up being an adult as well. The only way that I could say that I was able to survive is first and foremost racism in my life and I literally could not move forward unless I was taking it a day at a time. I'm such a planner and I have all these things of like, "I need to do this. I need to do that in order for me to get there."
Jennifer Chung:
But sometimes you literally just have to take today for what it is. Now, my husband and I are going on to six years of marriage and we've learned so much about ourselves and my husband battles through a dark place as well and it was really my letter to him. When I say those first words like, "I know it hurts. Don't want to get out of bed. Much rather lay there instead, but you face what you fear. The thought that no one is near." Because you think that you're alone in this and you think that no one will understand and no one will completely understand, but you have to keep going.
Jennifer Chung:
I think that's where he and I are intrinsically a little different where I'm the type of person who keeps moving forward and maybe to the point where I don't really face it, but he sits there and he lets it soak in. And I think that's something that I could learn from too is because I've always been this type of person that's like, "Got to keep going, got to keep going." But there's beauty in being able to take it a day at a time and taking that moment and being able to just be proud of what today was and not fear what tomorrow is.
Amena Brown:
And I think that's one of the things that makes songwriting so important, is you're able to put words to something that, even as I was experiencing that very low depressed place, I was almost at the point, and for somebody that works in words, it's very hard. I was at a point where I really didn't even have the language to express how I was feeling and that's the beauty of the gift that you have and the gift that so many great songwriters have, is this ability to capture what human beings are feeling.
Amena Brown:
Even though you might have the gift to articulate what we're feeling and the other person listens to your music and didn't have the words to say, "That's what I need to do. I need to take it one day at a time. I need to pace myself." It was just so gentle and moving and healing and I'm really glad that you wrote it and so glad that you're sharing with the world. Have you performed this song any place? And what's been the experience now, not just having written it, but also sharing it in an audience?
Jennifer Chung:
Yeah. I've sang it a couple of times. I sang it at my mini album release in Atlanta and I sang it at my mini album release in LA. First of all, it's a hard song to sing. I get annoyed at myself for writing it, because I have to be mentally and physically prepared to sing it but it's also a really depressing song. Maybe I sang it three times but it's a song that really brings things out of people, so I have to think about whether or not I want to put people there and if it's the right space to do it.
Jennifer Chung:
Imagine if I was doing this lit party, where music is popping and people are drinking, and it's going on, just all these lights and then I'm out there, take it one day at a time. I just don't think that's the right time and place. But it's like my little magic power if I want to release it because I know at least one person might come up to me and share with me a story, and I also have to be ready for that.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. Right. I love that. Let's talk about my favorite song. This is my all-time favorite Jennifer Chung song. If you are ever at a Jennifer Chung show and I'm there and she does this song, it's me yelling from the crowd, "That's my song." Okay. My favorite Jennifer Chung song is Broke, which is also featured on her latest mini album After All. Let us take a listen to a little bit of Broke.
Recorded voice:
(Singing) When you came in my life, I knew you were the one. You had integrity, I wasn't just for fun. Made sure that I was yours. Got married in four months. We still out here, now it's four years. I'm saying. We were broke. Well. We're still broke but never broken. Flashy things can get distracting, from what's happening. Without 'em, we're still happy. It doesn't even matter that we're broke.
Amena Brown:
Yo, if you didn't body roll while you were listening to that, I don't know what to do. I don't know what you're doing with your life. Listening to Broke is a perfect body roll opportunity. If you missed out on it, you need to just go back and just buy the whole album and you need to listen to Broke again and body roll to it. My gosh, Jennifer. You know this is my song. You know this is my song. And Jennifer and John and Matt and I have something in common in that both of us work in our businesses with our spouses.
Amena Brown:
When I first listened to the whole album, Jennifer and I got to this song, I was like, "This is us too." I knew this was you telling your story but I was like, "This is us too." When you're in business together, you make it through the times that the gigs came in, the clients paid and there's money and you make it through the times that you're like, "Somebody please send us a check, because..."
Jennifer Chung:
Yeah.
Amena Brown:
Tell me more about the inspiration behind Broke, and what's it like to get a chance to perform that song with your husband?
Jennifer Chung:
Man. Story of our life, when we decided to commit to each other, we literally told each other, "Hey, you're broke, I'm broke. Let's just be broke together, then we could build together." And I think that's why when we wrote the song, when we say we were broke, well, we're still broke but it's this uphill climb of trying to build something and for sure God has delivered and continues to do so, but it's also us letting people know, you don't have everything figured out, but we continue to choose to figure it out together. And I hope that it encourages people.
Jennifer Chung:
You don't have to have everything to have everything. You can figure it out together, you can build together. I also thought it was a really good juxtaposition of having this contemporary hip song melody that's very resonating right now with contemporary music, but as a rapper to admit that you don't have all the chains. When John is able to rap through it and I'm singing through it, we sing it proudly because it keeps us grounded and keeps us relatable and we can continue to move towards something.
Amena Brown:
You know that's my song. I love that song so much. And I just think there is a lot of power in being able to talk about being broke too, because I know I've been in some settings, particularly professionally where I'm looking around, and I'm like, "I know we broke, but these other people in here, maybe they don't seem like they're broke." And now, I have a part of my set where I just talk about brokeness real quick. And there are some people in the room who are like, "I have no idea what you're talking about." But most people in the room are like, "Yes. Yes."
Amena Brown:
Either been there or currently there, and it's just this moment where you get to share in that with people. Everybody's not going to have it together all the time. People have bills and don't necessarily have the money to take care of those bills. That's a part of the human experience for a lot of people.
Jennifer Chung:
And that's the thing, how cool is it that we were able to create a song where people can proudly say that they're broke?
Amena Brown:
Come on, I'm broke and I’m proud. Yes.
Jennifer Chung:
Yes. It's okay. We're not broken though. How cool is it that we have the opportunity to work hard towards something? And if we're happy while we're broke, we'll definitely be happy when we're not.
Amena Brown:
Right, because it's not, it's cliché to say, but it's true. It's not the amount of money a person has that makes them happy. That's not where the center of your joy or your peace is going to come from. And I also thought Broke is just, it's a beautiful love story to tell. That's not like... There are certain different ways a love song can be written, and maybe it's written from the angle of the guy has all this money and he's like, "I want to buy you rings, girl and I want to take to do this or that."
Amena Brown:
Or it's something like Bonnie and Clyde, three type situation, where it's like, "Here we are with all our name brand." Whatever things. I just appreciate it. We can be in love and walk through our lives together and partner together and put our little nickels together.
Jennifer Chung:
Yes, and honestly, I know there's a thing where you have to or society makes you feel like you have to look like you have everything together, but we found that people have been so much more gracious and loving towards us because we're honest with what we have and don't have and still can find joy in that because people want to be around happy people. And it also just reminds us that if we can find people who relate to us on a real level, then we don't have to act like we're something we're not.
Amena Brown:
No, that's right. Jennifer, tell my people, how can they follow you, watch you, buy this music from you? Tell me all the things.
Jennifer Chung:
Well, first and foremost, I just want to thank you for having me on. You can find me on Instagram, it's @jenniferjchung, J-E-N-N-I-F-E-R-J-C-H-U-N-G. That's my username for Twitter, for Facebook. On Spotify and Apple Music and all those platforms you can find me as Jennifer Chung. I came out with my single, V-Day for Valentine's day and it's a song for single people. So if you're riding solo this Valentine's day, then this song's for you, because this is written to embrace that singlehood because it is a gift and whatever place you're in life, it's a gift.
Jennifer Chung:
I hope that y'all will keep up with me and come to a show sometime. Every stream matters and every music purchase matters and check out wats.media. That's the content agency my husband and I founded. Besides being a rapper, producer, he's also a videographer and photographer. And I also help with brand messaging and running social media accounts with people, and I love it.
Jennifer Chung:
It's one of my favorite things to do because in a world of so much content out there and social media being something that could be used for bad, I believe Amena, for example, is someone who uses it for good, and I think more people can do that. We're here to help if you need us.
Amena Brown:
Y'all check out everything that's Jennifer Chung. Check out all of it, and if she comes to your city, don't think about it, just buy the tickets. Just buy them-
Jennifer Chung:
Please.
Amena Brown:
...and come there and see her. Jennifer, thank you, not only for just joining me on the podcast, but for being such a positive force in the world. I'm so glad that your voice and your writing exists. Thank you so much.
Jennifer Chung:
Thank you so much.
Amena Brown:
For this episode's edition of Give Her a Crown, I want to give a crown to one of my favorite body positivity advocates and also my current favorite yoga teacher, Jessamyn Stanley. There are quite a few body positivity activists and advocates that I have followed over the past few years, and we have many more weeks to give all of them a crown. I want to make sure I give mention to many of them.
Amena Brown:
I wanted to give mention today to Jessamyn Stanley because I have just recently started following Jessamyn's yoga practice on her app, The Underbelly, and just all of the different yoga classes that I've taken over the years, which many of those classes have also been wonderful, but to come into a practice with Jessamine where she is giving you these affirmations, encouraging you to be kind to your body in the process of your yoga practice. Encouraging you to not see your yoga practice as a place to push yourself into pain or these huge amounts of discomfort.
Amena Brown:
I just love her for that and I loved in my current yoga practice that I'm following with her being able to incorporate more love for my body in that process. Jessamyn Stanley, yes, girl, give her a crown. Give her a crown for this amazing app. If you're looking for a way to incorporate more yoga practice into your life, you should definitely check out her app, The Underbelly. You should follow her on all the social media, she is amazing. Jessamyn, thank you, for bringing your full self, your voice, your affirmations, for taking up your space and encouraging all of us to do the same.
Amena Brown:
HER With Amena Brown is produced by Matt Owen for Sol Graffiti Productions as a part of the Seneca Women Podcast Network in partnership with iHeart Radio. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review the podcast.