Amena Brown:

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to, not only, a new episode of HER with Amena Brown, but this is the last episode of our Road Story series.

MATT:

(Singing) And now we've come, to the end of the road stories

Amena Brown:

As y'all can see, Matt is here in the living room with us. Welcome. Thank you for being here. I mean, he's normally here because that's how the podcast...

MATT:

Y'all just didn't know I could sing like that though.

Amena Brown:

Boy, boy.

MATT:

Might have a restaurant one day, you never know.

Amena Brown:

Okay, okay. Might have you a singing career, child. We're laughing...

MATT:

You never know what'll happen.

Amena Brown:

We're laughing because that's a thing that my grandma does. It's like, any shred of talent that she sees in you, which, on one level, is a beautiful thing and also is very hilarious. It's like, any little shut up talent like, you sing a little song, my grandma's like, "Oh, you might become a singer one day. Oh, you got a beautiful voice." And you'll be like, "I can't sing like that, Grandma. I'm not Whitney Houston, child." But shout out to having grandmas who believe in you. Okay.

MATT:

That's right.

Amena Brown:

And speaking of good energy, we're closing out our Road Stories because to be fair, the road can be a harrowing experience, and was for us in certain regards, and in other regards, was really wonderful and I thought it would be so great to end with our favorite gigs, our best gigs ever, in our time being on the road. Matt and I have both talked about this. Now, our careers are in a little bit of a different place. We're not, as much, people who are on the road all the time like we used to be. Although, to be fair, we are both still stage people. Matt does a lot of performing that is here in Atlanta area and I am hoping to get back to doing some stage work on the road. I think we both hope to get back on the road at some point.

MATT:

I do miss the road a bit. When the whole world shut down, it was nice to have some gigs in your hometown. And I will say, I do enjoy sleeping in my own bed, I enjoy eating food out of my own fridge, I enjoy the things of your life that you have more control over because you're not on a plane, train or automobile. But there are just some beautiful things about being on the road, experiencing some different parts of the country, different restaurants, you're trying this thing out in this city, well, what works in this city? And then ATL has some specific things about it, you know what I mean? So always perform in ATL. I see some stuff be like, "Man, I sure would like the DJ in that town. Oh man, that looks cool." And so there's some of that stuff that I'm sure we'll get back to, and I sure hope so. So if you're listening...

Amena Brown:

If you're listening and you got some road gigs, holler at a player and...

MATT:

Holler at a player.

Amena Brown:

And book the hotels, right? Anyways. Anyhow.

MATT:

No pressure after listening to this series.

Amena Brown:

Yeah, no pressure at all, but please book the hotels.

MATT:

But our next podcast might be about you.

Amena Brown:

Thank you so very much. Yes. I think there is also a rush to being on the road, especially.... This is going to lead into what is going to be one of my votes for what has been one of my favorite gigs or favorite type of gig that we did. But I think there's something to when you're on the road and... I got a chance to tour with other artists. Matt and I never got a chance to do the type of tour where... Like how you would see, like right now, Beyonce's doing the Renaissance Tour and then she books this tour and it goes into all these different cities kind of doing a similar set of performance or whatnot. Matt and I traditionally did not have a lot of that together when we were on the road, but we did have the experience of having a show that we developed and taking it to all these different cities and seeing, how did it feel in Dallas? But how did it feel in this small town in South Carolina? But how did it feel in California? All of those things and all the fun stuff you get to discover about it.

So my first vote for best gig ever was us performing together. We had two shows that we did together. Our first show together was called God, Rhyme, Reason, which honestly morphed into the second version, which was Breaking Old Rhythms, which is pretty much based on my first book. And that, still, even though I think where we both are as far as how we like to practice our faith now, how we like to express our faith, there's a lot about what we were doing message wise that we would do really differently if we were doing that today, but just the opportunity that we had to really give a generation of kids hip hop history...

MATT:

That was my favorite part.

Amena Brown:

That was really cool to get to do that. That we built a show that you could do in front of a hundred people, but that you could do in front of 18,000 people. That was really cool. That you got a chance to show students turntablism. I mean, this is an era, now, we were probably doing that for what would be considered probably younger or mid millennial age, and towards the tail end, maybe we were getting a little bit of early Gen Z, a little bit maybe.

MATT:

Yeah, a little bit.

Amena Brown:

But the fact that you got to showcase turntablism...

MATT:

I really enjoyed that part of it. We would be out there... I remember when you first came to me with the idea, we were just friends. It just sounded interesting to begin with and it was a puzzle to put together just... Because how do you DJ behind a poet? I know how to DJ behind a rapper, I know how to work with a singer, people working what would be your more standard song format, but free verse poetry, but then also, that's going to be coming in and out of these stories and these monologues and you doing what would be a mini Ted Talk, traditional talk, but chopped up in between all these different elements. But the ingredients sounded cool and your love for hip hop culture, my love for hip hop culture and the idea of it being a DJ and somebody on the mic, I was like, "Ooh, that's cool." So there would be times that, like... There was a part where I would be juggling between the two turntables, cool like that.

And on the other tur... Okay, she's still going in this story. I think I know where she's headed to, but I need to give it some variation. Let me bring the horns in.

Amena Brown:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

MATT:

Back, back. Okay. We need to bring it back down because she's talking some more... Bringing that part with the snaps. And so, even from the idea of a beat maker, but it's like I was sampling these hip hop songs to go under your talk and then for people to be like, "Who is that song with the horns? Oh, you guys. Oh, and then this album, oh my gosh." There would always be a segment of the show where you would talk about the DJ and by this point, usually I'm building up, I'm juggling in the front part of Rapper's Delight or something, you know what I mean?

And it's building up the energy, you know, and then you would step back and give me a chance to just do a DJ juggle routine. And then also, for me, learning how to build a juggle routine for people that might not automatically just be in on what you're doing. It's one thing when you're working for a crowd that's like... They're immediately going to get it, they're already into it, they love it, yes. But then you're in there like, "Wait, what is this? What is this music? I don't know this music." I also find something that's safe and digestible. It was such a great time building that with you that I was like, "Wow, what a cool friend." And then come to find out everybody was right. You got a shot, bruh. Getting married and now we on the road?

Amena Brown:

Yo.

MATT:

In all these cities and be like, "We were really in this town juggling Rapper's Delight and talking about B-boys and B-girls and... Yeah, that was a time, man.

Amena Brown:

Yeah. I mean, I will say, second gig, which is really the first gig that we started doing together, which is one of the best that we've ever done together, is hosting the open mic at Urban Grind.

MATT:

Yeah.

Amena Brown:

I mean, first of all, shout out to Urban Grind, which is a coffee shop here in Atlanta, black woman owned, shout out to Cassandra. Still going today so if you live in Atlanta or if you come to visit, now, Urban Grind has multiple locations, so shout out to Cassandra Ingram for that. But you can visit on the BeltLine and visit the original location on Marietta Street, where, to this day, is still one of my favorite open mics to go to. Probably, if I'm honest, Urban Grind is probably my favorite open mic, still, to go to in the city, honestly. But I started out there hosting an open mic and I had a poet who was, I guess, trying to DJ.

So he and I were kind of doing the open mic together, and then I met Matt and he told me that he can DJ and that was my trial run. That was me trying Matt out to see, can this guy really DJ? Because the stakes at an open mic are not that high because everyone from all walks of life and all levels of experience are coming there to do whatever they're going to do on the mic so I felt like a DJ who's not so great is not terrible at an open mic, and if you don't like it, you can just move on, whatever. And so, of course, Matt came and he was very dope, and then I just basically asked him to keep DJing for the open mic. So we really, together, were hosting that open mic, man. I mean, I hosted it in all for nine years. I maybe was only hosting for a year, if that, by the time you came into it. So, I mean, we started out as friends and then we became boos and then we got married.

MATT:

And what a great community, you know what I'm saying? The poetry community in Atlanta.

Amena Brown:

Yeah.

MATT:

I didn't have a window into that as much before you. And so, it's like, you have a lot of people that come up to you. People always ask me, "How do you get in to do this?" My kid wants to be a DJ. Or somebody's like, "Yo, I want to be a DJ." And I'm like, look, now, gear wise, you can buy some entry level gear for pretty reasonable price compared to when I first got in, is because a roommate left their turntables and their mixer and their needles and their vinyl records and headphones. You had to figure all that stuff out. But then also it's going to be that somebody's going to give you an opportunity to do it probably for free. And some of those opportunities you take and you go, "Yeah, this opportunity doesn't go beyond, this is where this opportunity ends."

There's a thing that I like the call 'getting paid twice' at a gig and sometimes you're not getting paid the first time,

Amena Brown:

Right. Right.

MATT:

But that second time is because you do that thing... You know you're getting good at a thing when you're at a thing and somebody goes, "Ooh, this is cool. I also do this thing over here. Will you come do this here?" Which was the case with you, "Hey, I do this open mic." "Oh, cool, let's give it a try." Stakes are kind of low, you know what I mean? For you and for me. So I show up, I do this thing, I get some coffee, I meet some cool friends, I hear some great poetry. Cool. "Hey, also, I've got this idea of putting a poet and a DJ together." And I was like, "Let's see where it'll go." Also from there, somebody else is like, Hey, got this other venue, got this other event.

And then you also realize you're getting good when people start going, "How much do you charge for this?"

Amena Brown:

Right. Right.

MATT:

And you have no idea what to charge. And so, for me, I know that every time, I know that I'm probably low balling myself. I'm like, "There's no way that..." So I'll say something and they'll be like, "Yep." And I'll be like, "Okay. They said yeah real fast so I might have said too low." Or if somebody's like, "Pff..." I be like, "Ooh, I might have hit a little too high on it," Which is not usually. Me, normally, I'm too low. And now my wife, Amena, who, much like my friend Amena at the time, was like, "You need to be charging."

But then, from that experience that you had, it's almost like a skillet. You know how they say, with a skillet you don't use soap or something? You clean it a certain way because you're collecting all the flavor you got. And so I would say, from the flavor I picked up doing Urban Grind with you, the communal aspects of it, I still carry that with me when I'm in a venue this past Friday night and it's a thousand plus people in this place, and I don't have the same touch points with everyone in the crowd, but who is close to the turntables? Who's coming up communicating with me? Who are the people working behind the bar? Who is the security who came up and said the thing to me? Those communal aspects of what I loved doing Urban Grind, I still carry with me to everything I do now.

Amena Brown:

Yeah, it is interesting thinking about that because I was talking to someone recently about event MCing or event hosting, and they were asking me, "How did you become so good at that?" And I was like, it's, truthfully, being in an open mic setting, because we had to be prepared, for me as a host and for you as a DJ, for anything, and you don't have any forewarning or for knowledge about what it is. Somebody may come up and do a poem about something really traumatic that happened to them and you can't just bop back up after that and be like, "Y'all give it up." You really got to find a way to, musically and as a host, to hold space for the mood of the room after someone says certain things, to hold space for and honor the story that the person's told. And then the truth is, sometimes poems are bad at open mics, and that makes the room feel weird. Even the audience is like, "Oh, yikes, I'm not sure how to feel about that." And we'd have to improvise on the spot how we were going to help the room recover.

I feel like there's so many things that we learned together in that space, and truthfully, it was the road that made us have to stop doing it because we were just too worn out with travel and not wanting to go into the open mic and not be able to do a great job. But shout out to Urban Grind because hosting that open mic was still one of my favorite gigs ever. And the other best gig, I would say, that we've done together is the series that we did Press Play. And I think this was 2018, I think it was 2018 in the fall, if I'm remembering right, and we did this series, which is still... The series we did, whether it changes names and certainly would be at a different venue next time, I'm sure, but the series we did, that was like a dream of mine that I would love to do again.

MATT:

Would love to figure that out.

Amena Brown:

It was basically like the feeling of what hosting the open mic was like, except, instead of it being open mic, it was curated and we would feature two artists each night, and one of them would be a poet or comedian, and one of them would be a music act. I mean, first of all, we happen to be really, really blessed to know a lot of dope performers. So we really kind of went around to our friends and were like, "Who want to come here and perform?" And shout out to the venue. They were able to provide us a certain amount of budget to be able to pay people, which is great because in the open mic, we had our share of the door that we had with the venue with Urban Grind. Urban Grind would get a portion of the door and then we would get a portion of the door, and so we would take most, if not all of that door proceeds to give to our feature artists. But then it would kind of depend on how the door went.

MATT:

Exactly.

Amena Brown:

If that person got gas money or if that person got money that could have paid a small bill or whatever. So to be doing Press Play and really have, not gang gang money, but have some type of substantial something that would make a performer be like, "Yo, I'm going to come there and do my thing."

MATT:

"I will bring my band."

Amena Brown:

Yes. And come there and perform. That was amazing. And I've always loved the idea of mixing a night with music and poetry or comedy. I always loved that feeling. And then there was a lot of stuff... I also think, which is going to be interesting to see how things go on for us in the future, what else we decide we're going to do on stage or create together, because we spent a lot of years in church world and because what we were doing was a little bit hip hop, was, in some way, fresh. Then, for a long time, what we were doing wasn't considered to be something for adults, which is why we got booked at youth events and college events all the time. And then after a while, they were like, "Okay, they're married. Maybe this is for adults." But it was still like we were in church, so there were a lot of sense of humor things that we might have wanted to do on stage and couldn't do.

MATT:

Right.

Amena Brown:

There was a whole ton of music that we wanted to play and couldn't do. And one of my...

MATT:

We all were listening to them in the car on the way home, just in this space, the sacred versus secular and all that stuff.

Amena Brown:

It just all got weird. And so, by the time we got to Press Play, we had both really stopped performing in church spaces for the most part. And Press Play, to me, was the first time that we got to perform together outside of the open mic. It was the first time we got to perform together and really be ourselves. When I was talking to the audience about the songs that end up in my head when I'm on my period.

MATT:

Man.

Amena Brown:

And the way that you, as my husband, will kind of be like, "I'm going to go get that girl a burger and some fries and I'm going to get some chocolate and I'm going to just slide a tray in there and hope for the best." And I was like, "Yeah, because he knows that in any moment, I could just hear Bone Crusher..." And to be there with you as a DJ and you to drop it and to get the whole room, "Everybody here who has a period, I ain't never scared..."

MATT:

I'm talking about yelling at the top of their lungs. The energy was great.

Amena Brown:

Yo.

MATT:

The energy was really great.

Amena Brown:

I would love to do that again, but that was one of my favorite things we've done performing together. So I want to throw it to you, when you think about you career as a performing artist... I mean, I have a couple of things that I'm wondering if they're best gigs for you, but that's my question to you. What would you say have been your best gigs ever?

MATT:

I'll say that, number one, being on the road with you for so long, it's hard to beat because I am such a fan of what you do and the way you work a mic and the way you work a room and the way you flow. And so, to have somebody that you can get up there with and it not feel weird, cardboardy.

Amena Brown:

Right.

MATT:

You know what I mean? Especially when you're kind of replicating the same thing over and over again in a different city. It really felt fresh. It was really like, "Wow, I get to do this thing..." There were certain songs that I'm chopping up while you're doing your poetry, and I can hear your voice building here, so we're really doing something that only exists in that moment.

Amena Brown:

Right. Right.

MATT:

That it happened. You had to be there. And that's one of my favorite things as a performer. And I would say because now, as a DJ mostly performing in nightlife entertainment, I'm mostly performing just me. Every now and then there'll be an MC personality who's yelling over the beat and I'm finding where they're going, but that time of performing with you, it was like we were a jazz band, a two person jazz band just riffing with each other, but we had places that we were going to go. So now it's kind of all just in my head. I know, okay, I'm at this venue, I know that this time, this time, I'm going to kind of do this warmup set so I want you to be walking cool or I know that last call is by this time so I want the energy level to be up here, and then in order to get people to leave this venue without fights breaking out, I need to switch to this type of music that's still going to have you singing, but it's going to get you, "Oh, it's time to go."

So those are all things that are in my own head. But that time of being me and you out there and a countdown clock, there'll be some countdown clock. And so, that's still just my favorite. And so, yeah, if we could figure out how to do that in a venue, on the road, if anybody's listening and you want to just come and do your thing, we're going to do it at your thing. But that's unbeatable, unbeatable. I'll say, beyond that, I'll probably say one of the ones you were going to say is that I got a text message from a venue that I've worked with a lot, and the guy's like, "Hey, I got something going on. A band was supposed to be here, but they backed out on me last minute. Can you get here right now? I'll pay extra. I can't tell you what it is." It is middle of the week.

Amena Brown:

Whoa.

MATT:

Packed. "Sure. I'm ITP, I'm inside the perimeter. I can get there. Let's go." I wasn't doing nothing, rolled up. I remember getting on the elevator.

Amena Brown:

This is also the middle of the week, y'all. Like middle of the week, it's a Wednesday. We were getting to the part of the day where you've already worked for the day, you're about to decide what TV shows you going to watch. It's that part of the day, in the middle of the week, when Matt is getting this text. Okay, continue.

MATT:

And so, I'm on the elevator and they're taking people's cell phones and put them in a basket when you get on the elevator. And I'm like, "Huh, that's interesting." There's a lot more security. I guess because I'm the DJ and I've got all this gear, they didn't take mine, but I was starting to catch the, "Okay, so we're not catching a lot of video at this gig. Okay, all right. Keep your phone in your pocket, bro." And so, I get up there, come to find out this was the wrap party for the first Black Panther movie. So I get up there and I'm setting up as quickly as possible because all the guests are there and they're like, "Yeah, the director is here, the actors are here." Everyone from the long list of people that takes to put on a movie, the camera operators, the grips, everybody. There's like 5, 6, 700 people at this thing, and they're playing background music.

Amena Brown:

Yikes.

MATT:

And he's like, "Set up quick, I'm telling you what's going on, here's what it is." And so, he's telling me what's going on. And of course, at this time, you know that, "Oh, cool, movie wrap party. Cool." I didn't know.

Amena Brown:

We had no idea how massive of a film it was going to be.

MATT:

No. And so, I set up as quickly as I possibly could. I jump in the mix and I'm doing my thing, I'm kind of eyeballing who's around me, and somebody's like, "Oh, the director, he's from Oakland." I'm like, "Oh, word? Okay." So I get in to my Hyphy bag, I start flipping some [inaudible 00:26:33] and E-40 and let's find out what's up. Next thing you know, this circle opens up and the director's in the middle. He starts Krump dancing and then the next thing you know, somebody else jumped in. And then this other lady walks up with an African accent and she's like, "Oh, will you play some Nas?" And I was like, "Yeah, I got you." So I flip in some Nas. And then when we go to the movie...

Amena Brown:

Man.

MATT:

And I'm watching the movie and I see the actress on the screen...

Amena Brown:

Yo.

MATT:

With that African accent, I was like, "Yo, that person was by the turntable. She was like, 'Will you play Nas?' I was like, 'Of course I'll play Nas. Nas my favorite rappers of all time. You ain't even got to ask. But yeah.'" But I was like, "Yo, and that person right there." And then you see how big of a movie and you're like... Those people had a lot of memories of this thing but I got to be there after they'd already done all the work and what turned out to be a joyous night. And I handed my mic over to whoever, and they handed to the director and he was giving the thanks to everybody for all their hard work and somebody else got on and talked on the mic about all the hard work. I'm like, "Yo, that's my microphone right there." I wasn't in the movie. I'm not saying I was in the movie, but I'm saying it was all the way done. It's at the end of it and my microphone was what they got to thank all these people for this thing that I hadn't even seen yet. That's what I'm trying to say.

Amena Brown:

Yo.

MATT:

And so, whenever we went and saw the movie and then saw it again, and anytime I see the movie from then on, I'm like, "Yo..."

Amena Brown:

Oh, man.

MATT:

I got to be at the aftermath. Like the, "We made it, y'all."

Amena Brown:

Yo.

MATT:

What an incredible event.

Amena Brown:

I guess, of all the gigs you've had and me watching you as your spouse and also as a business partner... Man. You were able to squeak out one text to me before you had to put your phone away and you were like, "Yo, I'm here. This is the wrap party for Black Panther. Got to go, bye." And I definitely text back because, of course, by that time of night, I was at home in a braless robe so you know I'm going nowhere, I'm doing nothing. But I definitely texted back just in case he got it. I was like, "You see Angela Bassett up in that hoe, I will throw this robe off and get some clothes on and throw some makeup. I'll be right there." He didn't see Angela though. I'm pretty sure that Angela Bassett and... Why am I feeling like Larry Fishburne? But was Larry Fishburne in the first one?

MATT:

Lawrence Fishburne?

Amena Brown:

Yeah. But he used to be Larry when he first started.

MATT:

For real? Well, I thought I was going to have to edit that out. Oh, we keeping that.

Amena Brown:

You look at some of them early movies...

MATT:

Larry Fishburne?

Amena Brown:

Like, I'm not sure if... We need to check the credits of Boyz N the Hood, because I think Boyz N the Hood might have been one of the last films that he was listed as Larry.

MATT:

Yo, big ups to Larry. Larry Lar.

Amena Brown:

Now I'm like...

MATT:

That's Mr. Fishburne.

Amena Brown:

I feel like Angela Bassett, and there was somebody else. If it wasn't... Maybe it wasn't him, but there was somebody else that was in that movie that I was like, "Angela Bassett and whoever that person was."

MATT:

Could be Michael B. Jordan was in the first one.

Amena Brown:

No, it was somebody that I was like, if it's anybody that's not going to show up to something like this, it's Angela Bassett and whoever this other person was. But my mind always puts Angela Bassett with Larry Fishburne because they've been in other films together.

MATT:

That's right.

Amena Brown:

But anyways.

MATT:

So Akeelah and the Bee?

Amena Brown:

Yes. Okay. So all that to say though, y'all, he did not see Angela Bassett there so I did not try to throw a cute outfit on right quick and see if they would let me sneak in and be like, "I'm married to the DJ." But that was so exciting to me, for you. You were the right one for the job because you could go in that night not knowing, at all, what it was going to be, and not knowing exactly who was going to be there as far as the kind of music, and to just be able to be prepared.

MATT:

I was DJing and wasn't even all the way... Everything wasn't even connected. I was like, "All right, let me connect to y'all's system, get a song running while I'm still hooking up turntables and my speakers and..." Oh my gosh.

Amena Brown:

Yeah, that was a great one.

MATT:

That was exciting.

Amena Brown:

What are some other best gigs ever, to you, as a DJ?

MATT:

I would say... There's been some events that we've been a part of... I've gotten to do a lot of cool events. From the Black Panther wrap party, from there on, I've gotten to do several other events where there were going to be celebrities there, or it was for the team of that celebrity. And you get there and that celebrity may or may not be there, but it's still an exciting experience to prepare for and, you know, you do your best. Then there's other events that you do that you're not as excited, maybe. It's a cool thing, you're there, you're doing it, it's a good gig and then something surprising pops off.

Amena Brown:

Right.

MATT:

Some of those are really some of my favorite gigs where something surprising pops off. We were in Toronto doing an event that we had done some other events with, and there's some unfortunate parts of that story that made us not as excited to keep doing these events. But there were some contracts and we had some bills due, and then we had talked to some people who had advised us and chose to keep going on with these events. So we're doing these events, and so, you get there... And one thing that I kind of like to do is, I look around and be like, "Who..." From a customer service perspective, I still look at what I do as customer service.

Amena Brown:

Right, for sure.

MATT:

"Who in this room is being served? Who in this room is not being served?" Everybody in this event may be aimed at somebody, and that's cool. I want to be in the flow of the event but if I can veer off just a little bit and let somebody in that crowd be like, "Yo, I see you. It's me and you working right now. Let's go." And I remember just getting into my B-Boy bag, and next thing you know, this, again, back to the circle, a circle pops open, and for real, B-Boy culture pops up in the middle of this event that I never would've guessed would've been at this event. And then the breaking and windmill and all the things that's happening, and you're like, 'Yo, this is so exciting." And those also become my favorite gigs because there's somebody's who's like, "Yo, you see me and I see you," And then you end up having this real cool exchange. So I'd say there's a number of events that has happened where you're like, "Yo, that's kind of wild."

Amena Brown:

Yeah. I thought about two that I was like... They were some of my favorites to hear about, and then one of them I was there for, but one of them was, you did a Christmas party in a big stadium for a big soda brand.

MATT:

Yeah, I can say.

Amena Brown:

Can we say?

MATT:

I can say.

Amena Brown:

Okay.

MATT:

Yeah. Okay. So a friend of mine, who's a DJ... So I get brought in to do some cool stuff by other DJ companies. Shout out to all the homies who come to me and, you know what I mean? And still to this day... I got a thing from a DJ recently and she's like, "Yo, I can't do this thing. It's a venue that I've wanted to be in." I was like, "Yo, thank you. Thank you for thinking of me." It's a beautiful thing that I do love about the DJ community and DJ culture, is it is communal and relationship based. So this dude brought me in on it. He said, "Yo, we got this thing and this thing." And so, what it was, it was the Coca-Cola company, it was their Christmas party. And again, this is right before the pandemic tip, so the world was still open and you're doing this gig and you're like, "Yo, if this is this awesome, what's going to happen next?"

Because each one, you get on this roll where you do this one gig... You're at Urban Grind, and then you don't end up in the Mercedes Benz end zone at the next gig.

Amena Brown:

Right.

MATT:

You kind of work your way up and then next thing you know, like, "Oh, I can handle the Black Panther wrap party with zero preparation." "Oh, I can handle..." "Oh, this person's team brought me... Oh, you're good? Okay." You know, realize, "Oh..." And it grows and grows and grows. So this one, it grew to where, at this party, they had a bunch of DJs and then me and the other DJ, they had us at the end spot, the headliner spot. So you're on this massive table in this big stage in the end zone of the Mercedes-Benz Stadium in Atlanta, Georgia, where the Falcons play, where Atlanta United plays, it's a big thing, and you are looking out and, in what would be, the whole football field, is full, as far as you can see, of people and lights and there's moving, there's machines, smoke going up in the air, and it's all this excites up to where you're like, "What is going to happen next? This is going to be amazing." And then the whole world shuts down.

Amena Brown:

Yo.

MATT:

But for the time being, we're on this stage, doing this thing and I remember there are a couple interesting things. Number one, you're rocking with another DJ. So again, as a DJ, I'm always at least three songs, if not more, in my head.

Amena Brown:

Right.

MATT:

There's a song playing, there's a song that I've got queued up on the other turntable, there's a song I'm headed to, but then also, I'm trying to take you somewhere. So in order to get to this song, I'm going to need at least, probably, two or three songs, either tempo wise to get you up there, mood wise to get you up there. We're going on a journey. And so, working with another DJ where you might be like, "Hey, you got this one? I got this one. You got..." That was an interesting thing. Number two, it was an interesting thing that the company who brought my friend's company in, who brought me in, they were like, "We really don't want you to have your phone out, taking selfies, taking video." But you're also like, "This is an amazing opportunity right here." As a DJ or as anybody who's a performing artist, the best thing you can do is show your work.

Amena Brown:

Yeah.

MATT:

I like to set my turntables up a certain way so you can see my hands. Because we would be at a lot of events, these large events, and I noticed people would come up and ask me, "Were you really doing that?"

Amena Brown:

Right. Right.

MATT:

And I'm like, "Yeah." Because, to me, I love to perform in front of a crowd. I'm a performance artist, so I like to put on a show, I like to do something that would not have happened had I not have been standing there. So you're on the stage and I want to show my work, because, again, somebody sees you at Urban Grind and says, "Will you do this thing over here?" And then somebody sees you over here and they're like, "Will you do this thing over here? How much?" And that's kind of how it builds.

Amena Brown:

Right.

MATT:

And so, here I am on this massive stage, all these lights... And so I did sneak out a couple of... I think you can probably still see them on my Instagram and then the whole world shut down. That was another weird thing. It was like, okay, I got to kind of sneak it over my shoulder just so you can see this huge crowd. And then the other thing that was interesting working for such a large brand is, this was definitely well communicated upfront, was that you are not allowed to play any music from any artist who has had a brand deal with our competitor, which, you run down the list of people who had Pepsi deals from...

Amena Brown:

That's a lot of music.

MATT:

The year I was doing this, Cardi B's 'I Like It Like That' was the biggest song in the world. Well, she currently, at that time, had a deal with Pepsi, so I cannot play the biggest song in the world in front of this massive crowd that, at this moment, I know that song would light this crowd on fire.

Amena Brown:

Man.

MATT:

And I just remember... It's also interesting in that environment because in the venues that I work at, I do kind of like that I'm accessible to people. I like it. People are coming at me from all different angles. And you get a lot of weird things. You get some unfortunate conversations that you're like, "Okay, you're not helping. I'm a person. You just said that to me? What?" You get those type of interaction. But also, for the most part, I enjoy it because you get some connection points, you get someone from a different culture coming up to you. This guy asked me for this song this past weekend and it was from a Bollywood movie and I don't know it, but I found it in a way that I could hit play on it. Most of my crowd had no idea what to do, so I dropped the music. I'm like, "Listen, we giving everybody some time.` Look, these are my friends. Put your hands up."

And so these dudes put their hands up. I was like, "I don't know what to do to this music either, but do what they're doing." Next thing you know, flash forward three minutes later, the whole crowd is jumping.

Amena Brown:

Yeah.

MATT:

I can't tell you where the 1, 2, 3 or the four is on this rhythm that's happening, but you have these interactive moments. So in this big arena, you're in the end zone and the lights are in your eye. You're far away from the crowd but it was wild to still see people writing songs on pieces of paper and holding it up and you squint and you're like, "Wait, what?"

Amena Brown:

Right.

MATT:

But still finding a way to connect with people in that crowd. So that was an incredible gig that I surely thought, "Oh wow, this company that brought us in to do this? Oh, we're doing this again." And that was December and the world promptly shut down by March.

Amena Brown:

Boy, what a time.

MATT:

Yeah.

Amena Brown:

That's a time. But shout out to some best gigs.

MATT:

Yeah.

Amena Brown:

Because when you came home from that one, I was like, that sounds exhilarating.

MATT:

Yeah.

Amena Brown:

When I think of my best gigs ever, I would probably say on the number one is The Together Live Tour. And big shout out to Jennifer Walsh and Abby Wambach and Glennon Doyle for just putting this tour together and inviting me onto the tour. But for those of you that weren't familiar with it, Together Live was a tour that Glennon and Jennifer and Abby did many years before me, I think, or at least a few years before I was invited to be a part of it, and it was very women-centric, it was very inclusive and feminist and just very empowering of women. So on a level as a performer, I mean, I'm sitting on stage with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach and the War and Treaty and Ashley Ford and Michelle Buto.

MATT:

Yes.

Amena Brown:

I mean, it was just so many amazing people. I couldn't even name you all the people that were on this tour. And my friend Austin Channing Brown was also on the tour so we got to do a couple of dates together. So much amazing things. And I think why it was the best gig ever for me, or one of my favorite gigs to have done, is, I was at this point where I was sort of questioning myself, you know? Leaving Christian space and... I'll use the phrasing, 'having done well there', and I'm using that to mean, I feel like there were people in that space that enjoyed my work. I could go to different gigs that were in church space, and there are people who recognized my work from some other thing they'd seen. And I knew that my work worked in an open mic setting, but I had not been on a big stage where there were people there who weren't church people.

Some of those people at Together Live just ain't Christian, don't want to be Christian, don't want to be nowhere near a church and have good reason to feel that way, and I only had seven minutes because there were a lot of us on stage. So I only had seven minutes to perform, and just doing my poems out there and getting that standing ovation from the crowd and being like, your work is not just for the small space that you come from, that your work applies to other people, is meaningful to other people. And that was a big turning point for me, of knowing what could be possible in my career.

Another thing that the pandemic came and stole from us, because we were actually planning to do a fall and a spring Together Live Tour for 2020 and was just... Man, having so many wonderful creative conversations about that. So I hope something else that comes back around, because that was amazing. That was one of my best gigs. Obviously performing Margaret in front of Judy Blume, which I talked about in an episode here so please revisit that episode. We'll put that...

MATT:

Incredible.

Amena Brown:

In the show notes if you have not listened to that episode.

MATT:

When I got that text from you, I got up and ran around the room. Incredible. Like, go Amena, go. Incredible.

Amena Brown:

Also, there's video of that on my IG of me actually performing that in front of Judy Blume. That was not the gig I was there to do, but it was at a gig and it was the best gig ever because that happened at the gig. And probably my other best one, which, ironically, also happened in 2019, was the Pattern launch party. And the Pattern launch party wasn't technically a gig of mine because I wasn't performing or anything there, but it was the unveiling of the Pattern manifesta that I had written and did the collaborating with Tracee Ellis Ross on. And that was my first time seeing the video that they put together with it. And Tracee was very kind and sweet to just thank so many people that had helped make it possible, and she thanked me in front of everyone.

And this is a launch party where you walking around eating tacos and Lena Waithe walked by and Kerry Washington walked by and the whole cast of Black Lady Sketch Show walked by. It was like, if Black Girl Magic could have been distilled into an essential oil, it was in the air that evening. In addition, after Tracee thanked me in front of everyone and then played the video so we all could see... Tracee and her team are good friends with, who was, the Los Angeles poet laureate at that time as well, and she was there and she walked up to me and was like, "You did that." She was like, "And I know what it takes to write a thing like that, so I'm not just saying that to you to say it to you." So...

MATT:

Love it.

Amena Brown:

Best gig ever, I have to say. I guess I want to close this episode and close our Road Story series with this thought. I feel like, like many of you listening, many of us have experienced varying types of grief and losses during the pandemic. And for a lot of us, life is just very different and in some ways, it may not ever "return back to normal", I know we've all wanted to rush towards that, and some of that may not ever return, but I think, also, this can be a season of time to be able to let yourself dream again about what could be, let yourself dream again about what's possible and I think I had a lot of great time, babe, talking with you about some of this wild stuff that happened.

These are stories that we tell at dinner parties and tell to our families, but I've never really talked about in any sort of public forums or the podcast, so I think I've just enjoyed reminiscing on some of that.

MATT:

Same here.

Amena Brown:

But I think, also, we're not done. We're not finished with this just because that was a phase of our life at that point. Neither of us are done with the stage, neither of us are done with creative work and I think there's a lot more to come. I mean, we actually both have a few things cooking that we can't tell y'all about just yet. But...

MATT:

Yeah.

Amena Brown:

Just know, you haven't seen the last of Amena and DJ Opdiggy and the things that we can do and build together, so I'm really excited about that.

MATT:

Girl, I want to work with you again so bad. Come on. Come on, girl. Come up with something.

Amena Brown:

I know, right?

MATT:

You got me over here dreaming, thinking. Yeah. And we are not done with our work that we do together. And the amount of collaboration that happens out of this house, even down to this podcast... People may not realize when they bring one of us in, that you're really getting a p... There's so much collaboration that's happening.

Amena Brown:

Yeah, for sure.

MATT:

In this...

Amena Brown:

For sure.

MATT:

A lot more of it is at least, "Hey, what do you think about?"

Amena Brown:

Right. For sure.

MATT:

Down to the video clips that I was pulling off of my GoPro from this weekend, and I'm showing Amena, "Which one you think? Oh, that one? Yeah. Okay, that one." Or, "You need to post some more." "No," And she's like, "Yeah, doesn't make sense to you, but do it." And she's right. And so, all the collaborative work, I do look forward to performing with you again in front of a crowd. And we always say, is that one day, when our phones stop ringing...

Amena Brown:

Yeah.

MATT:

And those emails stop coming in and whoever decides that they are done with us and they've moved on to somebody else, it's still going to be me and you, girl.

Amena Brown:

Big facts.

MATT:

You know what I mean?

Amena Brown:

Yeah.

MATT:

You're my favorite.

Amena Brown:

You're my favorite. Thank y'all for listening, and I hope y'all weren't too grossed out by us being very lovey-dovey at the end. We're just used to no one seeing how lovey-dovey we are. So there you go, guys. Love you, babe.

MATT:

Love you.

Amena Brown:

Thank y'all for listening. See y'all soon.

MATT:

Thanks.

Amena Brown:

HER with Amena Brown is produced by Matt Owen for Sol Graffiti Productions as a part of the Seneca Women Podcast Network and partnership with iHeartRadio. Thanks for listening, and don't forget to subscribe, rate and review the podcast.