Amena Brown:
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to a new episode of HER with Amena Brown. And ooh, y'all, I had to record right quick, because if I didn't record right quick, me and our guest today were about to just start talking and y'all was going to miss all the things.
We already talked about stuff that ain't y'all business, but the part that is y'all business, we would've missed out, because I was about to just enjoy talking to her. We going to welcome today a RITA Award winner, top 25 Amazon bestseller, advocate for families living with autism. Let's welcome author Kennedy Ryan. Yes.
Kennedy Ryan:
Yay. I'm so glad to be here.
Amena Brown:
Oh my gosh, I feel the feelings being in here.
Kennedy Ryan:
I feel the feelings too.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. I tell my podcast listeners I consider this podcast to be a living room space. It's the space where I gather with my girlfriends. That's how I imagine it. And you bring your little broke down snacks and your girlfriend got some little broke down snacks because y'all really just got together so y'all can chat. That's sort of like the room that we're here. But it is extra special to have you here, Kennedy, because I just feel so emotional seeing all of the amazing things that have been happening in your career. So let me tell y'all some before we get into the questions because we are here doing a HER Favorite Things episode with Kennedy Ryan. So we going to try to get some information, some tea, some things from her about some things that are her favorites. Before we start that, let me tell y'all something. Kennedy Ryan and I go way, way back,
Kennedy Ryan:
Way, way back.
Amena Brown:
Kennedy Ryan know me before my hair was natural.
Kennedy Ryan:
Same. Same.
Amena Brown:
We had perms when we knew each other
Kennedy Ryan:
Right. We were still on that crack.
Amena Brown:
Hair was straight. I'm going to let y'all know my fashion was terrible. Okay?
Kennedy Ryan:
I think I knew you before I had my son.
Amena Brown:
Yes you did.
Kennedy Ryan:
I mean, you pre-date my son.
Amena Brown:
Yes. Yes.
Kennedy Ryan:
So that's saying something. He is 22.
Amena Brown:
Ooh. Kennedy, don't do me like this.
Kennedy Ryan:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
Don't do me like this, honey.
Kennedy Ryan:
We go way, way back,
Amena Brown:
Way, way back. And I'm going to tell y'all a memory, and you probably remember this too, Kennedy, but we were in church together for a long time.
Kennedy Ryan:
Yeah.
Amena Brown:
And we both kind of reached a crossroads in that moment because it wasn't just, I'm going to tell y'all something. Me and Kennedy weren't just people who went to church on a Sunday. We was at that place, a lot of days in the week, and reached a crossroads where we both were just at a place where life was shifting. And we had an opportunity to think about what do we really want to be doing? What do we really want to be spending our time doing? And I remember being at your house and you took out two chapters of something that you had been writing and you were like, "Read this. This is what I think I want to be doing."
And those of you who have read Kennedy Ryan's work, y'all know the vibes of what's about to happen. I started the first page and then just blew through the two chapters sitting at her house. And already knowing you, Kennedy, you already know about you, anyone that's met you, knows you're a wonderful communicator, knows you have this very warm personality. So it's not like I'm not expecting this writing to be good, just having known you. But y'all, it was great. It was great what was there. I was actually upset about it a little bit like, "But how I only have two chapters. What happened to them? They be together? They broke up? What happened to them?" And you were looking-
Kennedy Ryan:
Don't leave me hanging.
Amena Brown:
Exactly. And you were looking at a few of us that evening like, "This is what I want to do. I want to write fiction."
Kennedy Ryan:
Right.
Amena Brown:
I want to write novels. This is my thing." And then all of life happened. And by the time I reconnected with you, I was like, "That girl done did it. That girl done did the thing."
Kennedy Ryan:
Well, all the things that you've done, like seeing your spoken word and your poetry all over the place and your voice so big in so many spaces? It's amazing. It is amazing.
Amena Brown:
Like I really, shout out to Black women who watch The Color Purple, but I really be having a Sophia in the store with Celie moment every time your Instagram posts come up on my feed. Like, "I really want to be that day in the store." And I'm like, "Amena, don't do that on Kennedy's professional page. Do not get involved in rocking motions and crying on her page." So I'm just so excited for you and so excited now that there are so many books of yours out in the world and other projects to come connected to these books. So I'm saying that to y'all. This your time to be going to go ahead and buy these books if you haven't. I don't know. You're behind the times. Get it together.
Okay, so let me ask you about this, Kennedy. When you gather with friends, if you are assigned to bring a snack to the gathering, what's your snack? What's the thing that you are typically walking in the door? Are you a person who's like, "Herein I must make a snack at my home and bring you a homemade snack?" Are you a friend who's like, "You know I wasn't going to bring no homemade snacks. Here's a snack I done brought you from the store. Be happy with it." What are the snack vibes?
Kennedy Ryan:
If I am making it myself, first of all, I don't cook very much at all. I resist domesticity at every turn. It's not my ministry at all. I don't cook very much at all. So if I'm making it myself, I might do, you know how you can do the spinach dip?
Amena Brown:
Oh yes.
Kennedy Ryan:
With like chips or something like that? That would be it. But if I was bringing something that was pre-prepared, I love a good charcuterie board.
Amena Brown:
Yes.
Kennedy Ryan:
With good cheeses and some fruit and nuts and things like that, a jam. That is the kind of snack, that's the snack vibe I enjoy, if I'm not personally responsible for it. I'm not great at charcuterie boards, but that would be my snack vibe.
Amena Brown:
I do feel like I have a lot of good intentions related to charcuterie. I have a lot of good intentions.
Kennedy Ryan:
I do too. And I have a lot of Pinterest. I'm always pinning things and saving things. Like, one day I too will make such a picturesque charcuterie board, and then I end up bringing Doritos. It's like, okay, that was a thought that I had.
Amena Brown:
Yeah, I appreciate what you said about pre-prepared because I feel like that's my best case scenario if I'm walking into my friend's house with charcuterie. It's like, "Y'all chef so-and-so."
Kennedy Ryan:
Yeah,
Amena Brown:
"Be thankful they did this because otherwise everything's ugly." It's like I'm not as visually prepared to do this type of thing as I want to be when I am on Pinterest looking like, "Oh, look how they made ham and they turned it into roses." That's not going to happen.
Kennedy Ryan:
Oh my gosh. I know. I looked at my TikTok the other day and you have the collection. I had literally 300 recipes saved and never, never, have I made one of them, never. And same with Instagram. And my FYP and my feed are flooded with them because I save them all the time. So all the algorithms think I'm a domestic goddess when actually I'm the opposite. I'm just a saver and a pinner. I don't do anything.
Amena Brown:
A domestic pinner is really where the life is because that means there's nothing domestic you have to do. You're just looking at domestic things like, "Oh, I bet that's nice."
Kennedy Ryan:
Whoo, look at that. Someone's doing that. I aspire to that aesthetic. That's about as far as it goes.
Amena Brown:
I love that. This is a great snack. I thank you for this. Okay, I want to ask about your favorite place to write, but before I get to that, I want to see if you can catch us up, me here, and the listeners. What happens going from that moment where you are like, "It's an author I want to be." I think you knew you were a writer before that moment.
Kennedy Ryan:
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Amena Brown:
But the moment that you were like, "Yeah, no, this is me professionally. I want to be an author. I want to write books."
Kennedy Ryan:
Yeah.
Amena Brown:
What was that moment where you then crossed over from that threshold to say, "This is the thing I'm going to do," and now when you look at where your career is as a writer. Give us some of the landmark moments that you feel really helped you get into the life that you are in now.
Kennedy Ryan:
Yeah, it's really a series of them. When I look back at my life, even when we first met, there's no way that I could have projected the things that are happening for me now. It's like a daydream. Some of the things that are happening now, I have to pinch myself. Like you said, I always knew I was a writer. I started writing. I knew I was going to journalism school. I started writing for our city newspaper when I was 17, a senior in high school. And then I wrote for nonprofits and churches, philanthropic organizations. And then my son was diagnosed with autism and I started writing a lot around autism advocacy, like Chicken Soup for the Soul and Mom Magazine. And it was like my whole life. And then of course I started a foundation for families who have children with autism. So a lot of my writing just shifted to special needs parenting, special needs families, and advocating and voicing for our community.
So that means I was a special needs mom. I was running a foundation. All of my writing was around special needs and that was a privilege. But it also, I came to a point where I was like, "I need something that's just for myself." And I remembered that I love to read romance. When I was growing up, I loved to read romance. And you have to remember my mom was a preacher. And so she did not want me to read romance. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. We fought over it. I smuggled romance novels into our house. I hid them under mattresses. I stuffed them in my closet. I had 300 romance novels in my closet from 8th grade to 12th grade that my mom knew nothing about. I put a tarp over them. I hid them. I hid them from her because she was like, "You can't bring that in my house."
So I always loved reading romance. And then when you get to college, you start reading the serious books, it's like, "Oh no, no. It's time for me to read the serious books." And I did that. And then in my 30s is when life was heavy.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Kennedy Ryan:
There was a lot that I was managing and navigating as a mom, as a wife, as a woman. And I needed an escape. That's when I started reading romance again. And I was reading romance and it was such an escape for me, and reading fiction, which I hadn't even been reading fiction. Everything I read was like nonfiction, self-help, autism, which has been amazing. All of that has been amazing just guiding my family on our journey with autism.
But I wanted something that was just for me. And after returning to reading romance, I was like, "What if I wrote it? I'm a writer. I am a writer. I'm a trained writer. I'm pretty good at it. What if I started doing this for maybe a living?" And for me it was kind of an unusual journey because a lot of times when people say, "I'm going to write a novel," there's all these rejection letters, and it's just a whole process of getting published and things went pretty quickly for me. It's so interesting because the book that's so big right now is titled Before I Let Go, which has been optioned for television. It's going to be on Peacock, which is freaking amazing, and that's actually the first book I ever wrote.
Amena Brown:
Wow.
Kennedy Ryan:
15 years ago.
Amena Brown:
Wow.
Kennedy Ryan:
And I never planned to publish it. So I don't even know if that's the one that you read. I don't think it was because the only people who had ever read that book were my husband and my sister and my cousin and that was it. And then I just shoved it under the bed and forgot about it and then returned and wrote something different.
Amena Brown:
Wow.
Kennedy Ryan:
That was kind of just to see if I could do it. And I thought it was no good. So I didn't return to that for 15 years ago when my husband was like, "What about that divorce book?" And I pulled it back out. So thank God for my husband to say that.
But that other book that ended up being my first book that was published, now 10 years ago, which is ridiculous, I can't even wrap my head around that. I joined a writer's group. I knew that I was a professional writer, like by profession I was a writer. But I did not assume that just because I knew how to write that I knew how to write fiction, commercial fiction.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Kennedy Ryan:
That I understood that industry. It's a very different thing. And I started going to a writer's group in Atlanta and they really helped me. Surrounding yourself with like-minded people, surrounding yourself with people who have similar goals and who you can hold each other accountable and encourage each other, that was so vital for me. They were mostly women, lots of them Black women, lots of them were self-publishing. And I wasn't sure if I was going to self-publish or traditionally publish. And traditional publishing was kind of hard to break into.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Kennedy Ryan:
But we would have these conferences and we would invite agents and editors down from New York, because at the time, you had to be coming from New York. Things are much more remote and looser now. But they would come down from New York and everybody was like, "This book that you've written, just pitch it for practice." And I'd never pitched before.
Amena Brown:
Wow.
Kennedy Ryan:
And that's when you basically sit down with an agent or an editor and you just tell them about your book for 10 minutes. And they said, "They'll either just say thank you and you're done. Or they'll ask for a partial. But if they're really interested, they'll ask for a full, which means, 'I'm so interested, I want the whole book. I want to read the whole book.'" And they were like, "Don't count on that. This is just practice."
And so I booked one editor and one agent just for practice. And the editor I sat down with, I pitched the book to her. And she said, "I want the full." And I was like, "You want the what?"
"You want the what?" I mean, I was like, "They said this probably wouldn't happen." She was like, "Oh, I want the full." And then I had another meeting with an agent and she goes, "I want the full." And I was like, "Wait, it's not supposed to happen like this." So just because they asked for the full doesn't mean they want to publish it. You send them the full manuscript after that and they either get back to you or they don't, or it takes a long time. Within a month I had heard back from the agent and the editor. The agent wanted to represent me and the editor wanted to buy the book.
Amena Brown:
Wow.
Kennedy Ryan:
And so I was like, "Wait a minute, everybody talked about how you go through 50, 60 rejection letters." And that's what I was prepared for. I was not prepared for this acceleration that happened. And from there I published four books traditionally, and then I started self-publishing.
Amena Brown:
Wow.
Kennedy Ryan:
And, honestly, that's how I really built my career was through self-publishing. I love the creative control, the editorial control, the promotional control that comes with creating your own work and controlling and selling your own work. And then about two years ago is when I returned to traditional publishing with the book that's out now, Before I Let Go.
Amena Brown:
Wow.
Kennedy Ryan:
That's my journey in a nutshell.
Amena Brown:
Oh my gosh. What a full circle thing because I think there are so many of us as writers that write the thing that we're like, "No, not that one."
Kennedy Ryan:
Yes. Yes.
Amena Brown:
And in your career for that to have returned back to you, like, "Yes, that one." I mean even I think Stephen King has that type of story about The Shining.
Kennedy Ryan:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
Where he like threw The Shining away.
Kennedy Ryan:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
And it was his wife that was like, "Maybe we don't throw this book away."
Kennedy Ryan:
No. I had not even thought about it. And I was self-publishing, and I had an agent and the traditional publishers, it's so interesting because in the beginning of my career, I'm chasing all these publishers. And then I got to a point in my career where they were coming to us and saying, "We want to publish Kennedy." And I was like, "I'm good over here. I like self-publishing." But I told her it would have to be the right situation. It would have to be the right partner. Because at this point, if you've ever self-published or run your own business, you don't want to work for somebody else. You don't want somebody to tell you what to do.
Amena Brown:
That part.
Kennedy Ryan:
You enjoy that autonomy. You enjoy that control, honestly. And so I was at that place, but I found a incredible partner. And I say partner because my publisher, they respect that I've built my own brand
Amena Brown:
Ye.p.
Kennedy Ryan:
They're not asking me to change that. They're like, "You've built your brand. We want that brand." And I'm really lucky that that's the case. But my agent was like, "So what are you going to write?" And I had no idea. "What are you going to pitch?" I had no idea. I was just a blank. And that's when my husband was like, "What about that divorce book?" And literally I was like, "Babe. Uh-huh, no, babe, that thing ain't no good." He was like, "It was good. Go back and read it." And I did have to restructure it. It was written in third person. I had to write it in first person, change the names. There's so much that's different about it but the core of it was there. So I have to always give him props for that.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Kennedy Ryan:
Because it wouldn't have happened without him.
Amena Brown:
Yeah, for sure. Oh, I love that story. Do you have a favorite place to write? Are you a writer that can write in your home? Are you a writer that has to leave home in order to write? What is that part of your routine like?
Kennedy Ryan:
I need supreme focus. And if my husband is watching television and my son is screaming for me to fix him some food or asking for help, I'm not going to be able to write. I have a writing coach and the way she describes it is, "Let's say you're on a train." And she was like, "You make these stops. Some people can just pick up from that stop and start writing again." She was like, "The way your brain is made when you stop, you have to go all the way back to the station." And so she's like, "You have to create a space where you don't have to stop."
Amena Brown:
Right.
Kennedy Ryan:
"Because every time you stop, you have to start over." And so I can write at home if no one's here or if people are asleep. I used to write a lot at night after my son and my husband went to sleep and it was just completely quiet. So I can write here if that's the case. Lately I have been, this sounds crazy, I like to write in bed, but again, I know, I know. I like to write in bed. But if they're home and it's not peaceful, I can't write in bed. This is going to sound extreme. I go to hotels to write.
Amena Brown:
Yo.
Kennedy Ryan:
Yeah. I go away for maybe three days. Like if I'm under deadline, I will go away for for three days and write 30,000 words in three days. And if I'm home, it takes me three weeks to get there.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Kennedy Ryan:
That's my favorite thing now, is to go to an Airbnb or to go to a hotel and just lock away. I barely shower. I order food. I'm serious. I'm serious. I'm just like, "I'm here to work." And I hit a rhythm and I have written the biggest chunks of my novels at a time in hotel rooms. It's like pedal to the metal.
Amena Brown:
And the ability to just be focused on that. I think life, and especially home, it's like we love our homes, but also our homes remind us of stuff that could be cleaned up.
Kennedy Ryan:
Yes,.
Amena Brown:
And things we forgot to do.
Kennedy Ryan:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
And somebody walk in and start talking and I want to talk too.
Kennedy Ryan:
Right.
Amena Brown:
There's all those distractions at home too. Yeah,
Kennedy Ryan:
Absolutely. Yeah, and so I need to pull away from that. And my husband is so amazing because he holds down the fort. He travels a lot too, but we do that for each other. To say he is my biggest cheerleader is such an understatement. It's such an understatement. He is. I'm the one who's like, "Oh gosh, I don't know if I need to do that." He's like, "No, let's get somebody to clean the house. Let's get somebody to cook the food. Let's get somebody to do all these things. You just write."
Amena Brown:
Love it.
Kennedy Ryan:
And I don't take it for granted. And he's like, "No, you go away to the hotel. You go away." To have a partner who believes in you that way and who you support each other that way is so invaluable. So invaluable.
Amena Brown:
Oh, I love that. Because being in a relationship with a writer, it be hard sometimes. And so.
Kennedy Ryan:
No, it really is. I don't think people recognize how hard it is sometimes to be involved with creatives, to be in relationships with creatives. My husband can always be like, "You're not with me." He's like, "There's a look you get in your eye where you're in your head and you're thinking about your story." And he's like, "The closer you get to your deadline, the less of you we have." And he's like, "I am used to that pattern now is I know we're not going to have very much of you for weeks at a time." And so he gets that now.
Amena Brown:
Bless. Bless. Okay, because I feel like my husband and I, both of us being creatives, I feel like if I could overgeneralize, every artist is either the tormented artist or the opus artist. And I'm the tormented artist. I finished my first book draft and sent it into the editor and my husband's like, "We need to go celebrate." And I'm like-
Kennedy Ryan:
That's me. That's me.
Amena Brown:
Like cried right away. He was like, "Okay, so we ain't getting no brownies."
Kennedy Ryan:
Oh, yeah. It's a little bit of a mourning-
Amena Brown:
""What's going on?
Kennedy Ryan:
When you're so consumed with something, it gives you purpose. And after I finish a book, I kind of feel like I'm floundering. I have to reorient. It's like I'm reentering the world and I have to find my purpose again. Because for so long that book is everything.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Kennedy Ryan:
And everything kind of takes a backseat to it. And then when it's gone, I wake up and I'm like, "What do I do?" No, I'm like, "What do I do?"
Amena Brown:
Exactly that, yes.
Kennedy Ryan:
And my son's like, "I'm over here." My husband's like, I'm like, "Okay, okay, now I remember."
Amena Brown:
That's right. That's right.
Kennedy Ryan:
I'm a mom, I'm a wife, I'm a person, I'm a friend, I'm a sister. I can do all these other things.
Amena Brown:
I love that. Yeah, I feel like my husband's the opus artist. Everything he makes, he comes downstairs and he's like, "This is the best thing I've ever made. This music today that I've made is the best music that I've ever made." The next day he'd be like, "Today I have made the best thing." And I'm like, "Okay." So those two artists live in the same house is a wild time because I'm like crying, because I'm like "What if the poem won't be as good as the last one?"
Kennedy Ryan:
But it always is.
Amena Brown:
And he's like, "This was amazing. This was amazing."
Kennedy Ryan:
Yes. But that's me too. I'm always like, "Gosh, this one's not good." Or I don't know, for me it's always, you never get rid of that kernel of is it good enough or the self-doubt. And then just the standard you hold yourself to because I can't stand mediocrity.
Amena Brown:
Yes.
Kennedy Ryan:
I can't stand when something is fine. I'm just like, "Okay, it's fine?"
Amena Brown:
Right. Yikes. No.
Kennedy Ryan:
Even, "It's good." I'm like, "It's good? It's cute?" I want everything to feel fantastic. And that's a high bar to set for yourself.
Amena Brown:
Yeah, for sure.
Kennedy Ryan:
Because it's not realistic.
Amena Brown:
Right. Bless our hearts.
Kennedy Ryan:
Bless our hearts.
Amena Brown:
Okay, now talk to me about the genre of romance. I am new to the genre, to the genre as a reader. So just within the last maybe three years, so shout out to my assistant and friend Leigh who put me on, because I was like, "Listen, things in life are going kind of wild right now. I really can't be here reading doomsday books." She was like, "You need to start reading romance because at least you have a happily ever after."
Kennedy Ryan:
A happily ever after.
Amena Brown:
That you know.
Kennedy Ryan:
Guaranteed joy.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Kennedy Ryan:
Well, it's so funny because I think I reached out to you, I messaged you one time because I saw you interviewing one of my closest friends in the genre, Adriana Herrera. And I was like, "You interview romance novelists, and you haven't even reached out to me." And we've known each other. You were like, "Okay, okay.",
Amena Brown:
And let me tell y'all something, and put this in the list of things COVID ruined, because the plan was that HER with Amena Brown in 2020 was going to become a live recording.
Kennedy Ryan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Amena Brown:
So originally Kennedy was, I had a very small list of people that we were going go invite to do this live recording with an audience.
Kennedy Ryan:
And I was living in Atlanta at the time.
Amena Brown:
At the time. Right. We had put our little plans together. COVID came and said, "No, thank you." So then I was kind of holding to interview Kennedy, like, "Okay, okay. Eventually things going to open up. Oh, no, it's not. Okay, next year it's going. Nope." So I was like, "You know what? We just going to do this now and then we can do it live again."
Kennedy Ryan:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
We'll figure this out. But yes, did she cuss me out in my DMs? Yes.
Kennedy Ryan:
No, I did not.
Amena Brown:
Definitely reached out to you, like, "If I see one more romance author on your podcast."
Kennedy Ryan:
You ain't even what?
Amena Brown:
"That ain't me. I've been here all these years. What you doing?" What is your favorite thing about writing romance? Because as an author, as a writer, you had a lot of genres. You had a lot of genres you already had experience writing.
Kennedy Ryan:
Right.
Amena Brown:
Approaching even fiction, approaching the form of the novel. You had a lot of different ways you could have gone.
Kennedy Ryan:
Right.
Amena Brown:
What was it about writing romance that you were like, "Oh, I love this. This is what I want to do."
Kennedy Ryan:
For me, it's exactly what you touched on, which is that it's guaranteed joy. And a lot of people will ask, "Is what you do even romance?" And I think the reason people have asked that about my books a lot is because my books tend to be heavy. They're dealing with things like domestic abuse, like intimate partner abuse. They're dealing with things like missing and murdered indigenous women. They're dealing with these really hefty kind of topics. And a lot of people think of romance as pure escapism. And that's not my philosophy for romance. My philosophy for romance is not escapism. I see romance as a safe landscape to have difficult conversations. And the reason it's safe is because I know it's going to be okay in the end.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Kennedy Ryan:
We can have these difficult conversations. We can explore even traumatic events and then the path of healing. We can talk about all of that in the context of romance because I know it's going to be okay and because we have guaranteed joy. And that is my favorite thing about romance is that we have guaranteed joy, we know it's going to be okay. And especially writing about Black and brown women, which is what I primarily do, it also says you are worthy to be loved.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Kennedy Ryan:
There are too few spaces where Black and brown women are loved unconditionally and loved in the way that we are supposed to be, affirmed in the way that we are supposed to be, told that we're beautiful and attractive in the way that we're supposed to be.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Kennedy Ryan:
There's so much in culture that is, whether it's implicitly or subliminally, feeding to us that we're not worthy of those things. And that we are the lowest on the totem pole of being attractive, the lowest on that hierarchy. That we're not beautiful.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Kennedy Ryan:
There's so many things that say that to us. And I love that in romance you're going to see, and what I'm writing for the most part is Black and brown women, you're going to see them loved unconditionally and wildly and respected and esteemed and affirmed. And in the end have joy.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Kennedy Ryan:
And anytime I can present that, in cultural spaces, is incredibly rewarding for me. For Black women, especially for Black and brown women, to see themselves and say, "Oh my gosh." Seeing a woman being loved this way, being respected this way, being treated this way. Yeah, like, "That's how it could be." And I know a lot of people are like, "Oh, romance gives unrealistic expectations."
Amena Brown:
But does it?
Kennedy Ryan:
What? That a man would respect you?
Amena Brown:
Right. Why is that unrealistic?
Kennedy Ryan:
Because someone would believe in your agency? That someone would center your pleasure? That someone would want the best for you? What's unrealistic about that? You know what I mean? So not that every romance novel is going to be realistic, so that's what I love.
Amena Brown:
Right.
Kennedy Ryan:
That's what I love about the genre.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. Oh, I love that. Okay, if you'll share with us, do you have a favorite cuss word that you like to use?
Kennedy Ryan:
I think it's probably, I think it's fuck.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Kennedy Ryan:
I think it is. I think it is. I hope my mom never listens to this. But I really think it is. And when you write it, it's so powerful. There's so many things rolled up in that.
Amena Brown:
It's true.
Kennedy Ryan:
And it can be used in so many different ways. But it's never passive. It always kind of just explodes into any conversation. So I think that's probably it.
Amena Brown:
Fuck really does the work. There's a lot of work.
Kennedy Ryan:
It carries a lot of weight.
Amena Brown:
It does a lot of work.
Kennedy Ryan:
It really does.
Amena Brown:
It's almost like the cuss word equivalent of girl.
Kennedy Ryan:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
Especially between Black women. There's a way you could be like, "Girl? Girl"" It could just mean so many different like. I feel like fuck has that. It does that work.
Kennedy Ryan:
It does.
Amena Brown:
It could be like, "I'm disappointed." It could be like, "I'm mad at you." It could be like, "You fine as hell." All in the same word.
Kennedy Ryan:
It's multitudes. Multitudes.
Amena Brown:
I love that. I'm in agreement. I'm in agreement with that. Do you have a favorite Black girl hairstyle? And I know this might change in different seasons of life, so if you have one generally, or if in this season you have a favorite.
Kennedy Ryan:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
Like, "This is my favorite Black girl hairstyle."
Kennedy Ryan:
I think it's braids. Right now I have a few braids and then I have extensions. I have a combination. But it's protective. For me, it's almost always protective. And part of that is because when I'm writing, I tend to mess in my hair a lot and it'll fall out. I have bald spots. So it's always for me protective. But right now I love a good Zoe Kravitz braid. That's where I am right now.
Amena Brown:
Oh yes.
Kennedy Ryan:
The braid with the hair and the messy bohemian feel, that's my favorite thing right now because I don't have to do much to it and I like the way it looks.
Amena Brown:
I celebrate that. I'm just newly backed to trying box braids.
Kennedy Ryan:
Yeah.
Amena Brown:
I had had box braids as a child, not me telling my age, Kennedy, but I had box braids back when they had to use the lighter to-
Kennedy Ryan:
On the ends. The burnt ends, the burnt ends.
Amena Brown:
I went back to get some box braids last year for the first time in 20 years. First of all, the girl who's braiding my hair looks like she's in high school. I know she's a grown adult. But it's like I just look at her like, "Are you sure you should be here? Did you finish class?" I don't know. So then when she brought the hot water.
Kennedy Ryan:
Does your mother know you're here?
Amena Brown:
Right. Okay. Like, "Did your mom give you permission?" She brought the hot water and I was like, "What you you getting ready to do with that?" She was like, "Oh, this is how you seal the braids." I said, "No." She said, "You don't use the lighter."
Kennedy Ryan:
She goes, "No, ma'am," Literally, "No ma'am."
Amena Brown:
"No ma'am." Yeah, definitely was, "No ma'am. She definitely also hit me with the, "Oh yeah, my mom used to do that." And I was like, "I feel like you're equating me to being the age of your mother and I don't know."
Kennedy Ryan:
Right. You're like, "Do you want a tip?"
Amena Brown:
Right. Like, "What we doing here? What we doing here? And did you finish your homework before you came in here and braided my hair? Girl, get out." So once she braided my hair, I was like, "Oh my God, box braids. Man, this is amazing. This is a time. I just woke up and my hair is just done. This is great for me. This is great for me."
Kennedy Ryan:
Yes.
Amena Brown:
Yes, so I celebrate that. We love a protective style. Okay, I want to ask you one question in closing. You talked about joy. I want to hear some of your favorite things right now that are bringing you joy.
Kennedy Ryan:
Let me see. Audio books. I'm such a nerd. I've always been a voracious reader so books in some form or fashion is always going to be at the top of my list. So audio books. I would say 98% of what I read is through audio now. And it's just the best. I would say, it's gone off now. Good television.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Kennedy Ryan:
We're in an age of some of the best television ever. Succession just ended and Ted Lasso just ended and I'm watching The Bear and I'm just like, "Gosh, we have so much great television right now." I'm watching The Lioness. It is just like there's so much good that's on television. Warrior. So those are just some of the shows that are bringing me joy right now. Burrata cheese.
Amena Brown:
Come on now. Come on.
Kennedy Ryan:
So you go full circle to the charcuterie board.
Amena Brown:
Yes. Yes.
Kennedy Ryan:
With grilled peaches and a good cracker. I've been trying to recreate it and I'm like, "It never tastes right." So I would say that. And then just my family.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Kennedy Ryan:
I've been traveling a lot. I just got back from an 11 day trip, where I was away from home for 11 days. And just being with my family, spending time with my family, it means more now because I'm so busy.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. Oh, I love that.
Kennedy Ryan:
That's just a few things.
Amena Brown:
Especially the cheese shout out because it does-
Kennedy Ryan:
Ah, yes.
Amena Brown:
It does bring a lot of joy. And also the peaches. I know the girls.
Kennedy Ryan:
Oh, yeah.
Amena Brown:
The girls-
Kennedy Ryan:
I was like, "Grilled peaches and cheese?" And it just set it off. It set it right off.
Amena Brown:
It's everything. The girls are out here ready for pumpkin spice time, and I'm like, "It means we're saying goodbye to peach season though. Let's have a talk about that." Okay, where can the people follow you, get more information about what you're working on? Where can they buy five copies of your book? I always just tell my listeners, "Go ahead and buy five copies. Anyone who's featured here, pick a book and buy five copies of it. That way you have books to give away. New people come to your home. You can be like, 'Here's a book for you. Not my book, but an extra book.'"
Kennedy Ryan:
Right, right, right.
Amena Brown:
So you going to buy five copies. Where can the people follow you and find information about these things?
Kennedy Ryan:
KennedyRyan on Instagram. On the platform formerly known as Twitter, now it's like X.
Amena Brown:
I'm like, "What's that?"
Kennedy Ryan:
TikTok, on Facebook, I'm in all those places. And my link, you know your bio, like your link tree, everything is there.
Amena Brown:
Nice.
Kennedy Ryan:
All my books and announcements and all that stuff. So it's like a plethora of information that's there. And they can find my books everywhere. Barnes & Noble, Target, Walmart, online, all the places.
Amena Brown:
I love it.
Kennedy Ryan:
And if people are looking for a place to start, I recommend starting with Before I Let Go.
Amena Brown:
Um-hmm.
Kennedy Ryan:
Before it comes to screen.
Amena Brown:
Okay, you got to be-
Kennedy Ryan:
Even before you see it.
Amena Brown:
You got to go ahead and do both things. So you can read it, you'll be ready when it comes out on screen. I love that for you. Kennedy, thank you so much just for sharing your journey here. I know that there are a lot of listeners who may be at that crossroads where you were.
Kennedy Ryan:
Yeah.
Amena Brown:
At that point in your life.
Kennedy Ryan:
I mean, for people who are at that crossroads, you mentioned that we both came to that place where we wanted to do something different. I mean, I didn't get my first book deal until I was 40 years old. So it's never too late to pivot.
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Kennedy Ryan:
It's never too late to dig into a dream that you thought was out of reach. I remember looking at Toni Morrison talking about how she didn't publish her first book or get her first book deal and she was 39, and I used to think, "Wow, she didn't get her first book deal until she was 39."
Amena Brown:
Right.
Kennedy Ryan:
And then I'm like, "Oh wait, now look at you, 40. Your first book deal. And you never saw it coming." So it's never too late to pivot.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. Oh, I love that. Thank you Kennedy, so much. This was great.
Kennedy Ryan:
Thank you Amena.
Amena Brown:
HER with Amena Brown is produced by Matt Owen for Sol Graffiti Productions as a part of the Seneca Women Podcast Network, in partnership with iHeartRadio. Thanks for listening and don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast.