Amena Brown:
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to a new episode of HER with Amena Brown. Y'all know I get so excited about bringing people into our living room, so I want you to welcome nonprofit thought leader and chief executive officer of Mercy Corps, Tjada McKenna. Woo.
Tjada McKenna:
Thank you. It's so much fun to be here. I'm so excited. Thanks for having me.
Amena Brown:
Tjada, I have a lot that I want to dive into with you today because I had a long time in my career that I worked in nonprofit space from the artist end, if that makes sense, so a lot of partnering with organizations and different nonprofit brands. There is so much about your work that I think will be really valuable to our listeners and especially to the women of color in this community. But as always, Tjada, we got to start with snacks. The premise of HER with Amena Brown comes from the way that I have gathered in my own living room with my girlfriends. It depends on our schedules, it depends on our budgets, how we gather, but a lot of times the most free place is your home and sometimes you have things you want to discuss that maybe the restaurant is not the thing.
Tjada McKenna:
Yes. For sure, for sure.
Amena Brown:
Maybe the coffee shop is not the place you want to be, and so a girlfriend might call me and say, "Girl, I need to come over." And I'm like, "I got you." She's like, "What kind of things you got over there?" I'm like, "I got some hummus I opened up five days ago, I got some popcorn we can pop." She'll be like, "I got a couple of bell peppers. See you then." We kind of bring our little snacks together. When you gather with your friends, what is your favorite snack to bring or are you a person who likes to make a snack? What are the vibes?
Tjada McKenna:
Unfortunately, I'm not very gifted in the kitchen and that is a source of a lot of stress, so I am one to go to a store. Depending on the type of gathering it is, if it's really casual, just an afternoon and we're going to eat a little junk food, I will bring Swedish Fish, which is a childhood favorite and something that I may not get to indulge in all the time. If it is something closer to a meal or a little heavier, I might go find some chicken wings or chicken drumettes or some small pieces of fried chicken where that I can indulge and use as comfort food for our girls chat.
Amena Brown:
I really respect these choices. I first of all want to just speak out loud that bought snacks are delicious, you know?
Tjada McKenna:
Mm-hmm.
Amena Brown:
Big respect to the people who are able to make a snack, but that's what the store is there for.
Tjada McKenna:
Kudos to them and I'm jealous and I wish I knew my way around to do it, but the amount of stress it would cause me would have me not going to the home, so I just use the store.
Amena Brown:
I mean, I've had a girlfriend really bring granola bars to my house because she was just like, "I had this leftover from something my kid had. I'm just here." I think we just... We want to welcome each other in these ways.
Tjada McKenna:
Yeah, we have to welcome that. We have to celebrate. Not everything has to be a production. We put way too much pressure on ourselves as it is in our day-to-day lives, and sometimes we just need the friendship and the company more than the accoutrements.
Amena Brown:
It's that part. I want to thank you for bringing up the Swedish Fish because there are those kind of childhood snacks, candies type of thing that you wouldn't normally... I mean, unless I was having a really bad day, I wouldn't normally like "I'm going to walk in a store and buy these."
Tjada McKenna:
And go buy Swedish Fish. Exactly, exactly.
Amena Brown:
Right. Right, to a gathering.
Tjada McKenna:
But they make me smile every time I have them.
Amena Brown:
I'm sure every gathering you've brought them to, there have been people who were like, "Yes."
Tjada McKenna:
It is definitely not the typical thing.
Amena Brown:
I really respect that, Tjada. I want to thank you for doing that. Okay. I want to talk to you. Y'all, I have so many things I'm trying to ask Tjada, and we cannot be having a three-hour interview today so I'm trying to get my life together. But I want to talk about your career in nonprofit field. I know that we have a lot of people in our community who also work in nonprofit field. When you graduated from college initially, though, did you imagine that your career would end up where it is now? What was young Tjada's vision for what you thought you'd be doing in life compared to where you ended up?
Tjada McKenna:
Yeah. I am in the perfect place where I was always meant to be. I had no idea what that looked like and I certainly didn't expect it to be this. I went to college. I did a program called INROADS out of high school. I don't know if... INROADS, spelled like INROADS. It's a program, I still remember the mission, to help talented minority youth enter fields in business, so I had my little business internships, both of my parents were public servants, and so I was very taken by this world of corporate America and these big companies that owned all this stuff. So when I left college, I really felt like I was headed for a business career in corporate America. I wanted to go as high as I could go, and then in my free time I wanted to be able to do things that impacted Africa and the community. I never dreamed of pulling that all together in my career, but I thought I for sure was headed up a very steep corporate ladder.
Amena Brown:
Wow. I love this part of your story too because I think the person we are when we are young and starting out our career, it's sort of like it can be a twofold experience. On the one hand, sometimes we do have some ideas germinating with us about what we think we want to do and we may think, "Is that realistic? Is that a thing?" Then sometimes we have a thought of what that is and then our actual journey takes us on these winding roads that sort of lead us down this path that we wouldn't have imagined, but, to your point, places us exactly where we needed to be.
In your bio, it says you are the only African American woman at the helm of a major international aid and development organization. This is a really powerful thing. On this podcast, we talk a lot about the pluses and also the hardships of being first, of being only. In some ways it is absolutely an important moment to kudos to you for all of the path that had to be carved out, all of the trail you had to blaze in a sense. That will mean a lot to a lot of Black folks coming behind you, to a lot of people of color coming behind you.
We know that that's not easy. It's not easy to be only generally and especially to be only when you are in a leadership position. There are a lot of Black women and women of color who are struggling in the problematic structure of a lot of international aid organizations. What would you say... I mean, I know we could talk about this for days and days, but what would you say are some beginning things that need to be done to change that problematic structure that is sort of having some barriers as to why there are not more folks of color that are at the helm of these organizations?
Tjada McKenna:
Is it okay if I do this in two parts?
Amena Brown:
Absolutely.
Tjada McKenna:
Because I've been spending a lot of time thinking about the trauma of being the only or the first in a lot of different situations and how that's manifested, so I'd like to talk about that a little bit. Then I want to talk about in my industry specifically, I am proud to say that I'm not... I'm the only one serving right now. I'm not the first. The first is our wonderful sister, Dr. Helene Gayle, who is where you are in Atlanta as the president of Spelman College now, but she.
Amena Brown:
Yeah, which is my alma mater so shout out to Dr. Gayle.
Tjada McKenna:
Yes. Yes. My mother's alma mater as well. Helene Gayle was the CEO of CARE, which is also based in Atlanta, for about a decade, starting probably in around 2006 or 2007. I have to say that when I took this job when it was announced, one of the first calls I got was from Helene Gayle and she checked up on me regularly during my first year. Very grateful for people that showed it was possible, really disappointed that I'm the only now and since Helene there really hasn't been another one at the helm of a large international development organization like Mercy Corps.
The reason I want to talk a little bit about the trauma, I think there have been a lot of times in my life that I've been the only. There were parts of elementary school and this space now. As I get deeper in my leadership journey, sometimes I realize the things that that does to me mentally that that may not do to my peers, and at times I can be a little resentful of that, so especially now. We're a few years after George Floyd, still in the midst of defending why Black Lives Matter. I've had to address racial issues at work, and it bothers me that I have to stop and think, "Are people going to see this as me just being self-absorbed?"
But these are real conversations that have to be had. Just because I have this lived experience shouldn't make me more hesitant to speak about them than other people, and in fact I feel like it's my duty to do that. But on the other hand, that is the tax and the burden that so many of us have as one of few in these situations. It's this layer of responsibility and an opportunity that our non-people of color colleagues don't have to contend with. There's always been this extra tax in addition to just being a Black woman. There's always been this extra tax on my life of being that like, "Oh, gosh, I need to make sure I mentor people so that I'm not the only one next. Gosh, I need to help these people prepare for interviews. We can get more Black people in the next class."
There's just always that extra that we are called to do or that we feel a sense of obligation to do because of our history and our community. I think we should just acknowledge that and make space for ourselves and also acknowledge that sometimes that's really frustrating and we get angry and it's not fair and it's how we choose to live. In my sector in particular, it's a difficult space. I work in the international development space, and if you think of the history of this space, the classic model was the white Westerner, so European, British person going to "save some people" who are often Black or Brown in another part of the world. Even if you look at missionary activity and all that, it's all from this. The optics or the framing have been around saving and generosity, so that's one problematic element of it.
The second, too, is if you think of who in society has the opportunity to do that saving. I'm really fortunate in my life. My mother has a first cousin and her husband, they were in the second class of Peace Corps volunteers ever. They served in Northern Nigeria. They had that. When I came out of college, I had student loans. I was not going into the Peace Corps. I needed to go earn money, I wanted to earn money. So just who has had these opportunities to travel internationally and to do this work? When we're applying for these jobs out of college, who are the people that say, "Oh, I spent a semester in this country or, oh, my parents took me to live here?" There are those imbalances.
I think the third is just when it is a situation of providing something or thinking that you are, it's the way that people that have been the objects of those things have been received or taken. There have been multiple layers, which unfortunately has led to oftentimes these organizations are not run by people of color. We do see more women, but before you didn't see a lot of women historically either and sometimes not really taking into account or not seeing the people that we're serving as equals in this journey or this sense of paternalism as though we know what's best and they don't. It's really important now to really turn that upside down, and I'm really proud that at Mercy Corps that's part of how we're trying to do it, but even the optics and the language... For a while, we used to say that people were beneficiaries of our work, right?
Amena Brown:
Mm-hmm.
Tjada McKenna:
Now we call them participants, and they're participants and partners and creators and owners and these are joint things. Voluntourism is something... When I graduated from college, I did one of these programs that now I consider a bit problematic where I was coming out of college an idiot and I "volunteered", in quotes, in a really remote area of South Africa and we were building a school. I had never built a thing in the day of my life, so in hindsight...
I mean, I think we should think of those things as exchanges or cultural exchanges because honestly I brought no skills to that, maybe was taking away work from a local person that should have been doing that work, and who the heck am I to show up as a savior? So it is, it's like the optics and the framing, so we're working really hard to really strip that language and that way of thinking from our vocabulary. I guess I had mentioned the participant thing earlier, really conscious of savior things, very conscious of the images.
I came of age in the '80s where you'd see these ads with African children with flies in their eyes, what we now call poverty porn. We do not do that. You will see in images that we put out, it is people who have agency over their lives who are in positions of strength coming out of difficult situations and just really conscious of not promoting that imagery, really conscious of making sure that we do have equity, that more than 85% of our team is from the communities where we work, trying to get people from the regions, from those countries into leadership positions in those places but also in the organization as a whole and just being really thoughtful.
Our largest groups of expats these days are not Americans or Europeans or Australians. It is Kenyans. It's Kenyans and Ethiopians and people from Nepal and people from India, so really trying to evolve that and then also really paying attention to the power structures in our work and making sure that we are approaching things in very humble ways and working with local organizations and local leadership in that it is something where that community has more of a voice than we do and all kinds of mechanisms for people to speak up when they feel like that's not happening. None of this is perfect. This is all evolving. It's still under a dynamic where you do have mostly money flowing from the Global North to the Global South, but there are just ways to do that vastly better than our sector has done in the past. That's what we're very committed to doing.
Amena Brown:
I love hearing this. I mean, first of all, it gives me a lot of hopeful feelings and hopeful thoughts that change is possible. It's possible for us in our various fields to recognize, "Wow, the way we've been doing that is a problem." And we don't have to say, "Ah, it was just the times." We can actually say, "And we're going to stop and here's the new ways we can learn how to partner with others, how to use language in more equitable ways, how to use our imaging and photography in more equitable ways." I think that is so powerful, Tjada, because I am a kid who grew up in church. I have been on more missions trips than I can count. I actually thought to myself almost all if not all of my international travel was related to sort of voluntourism in a way.
As I got older, I just started to think like, "I didn't get to see those countries or those communities from a more holistic view because all I'm seeing is what I'm coming there to help, to fix, to whatever those things are." There is a more... Especially I feel for many of us who are American, there is a humility that we need when we are going into these spaces. It is not to assume that the people there don't know the things, we have arrived and we know the things. It's really to find yourself, if you are in this position, to arrive to say, "I'm here to learn from you. I'm here to partner with you in the ways that are helpful to you." But I have had more experiences of the other side of that where you look back and you're like, "Yikes. I don't know-"
Tjada McKenna:
Yeah. Yeah, or you look at the pictures that you took and you're like, "Maybe that doesn't look great." That's why I love the term exchange because it's not just... It's like what are we learning from them? We're going to these places to learn as well, and I think a lot of times in those situations it's like, "No, we're taking this great thing and no, we're learning and they have a lot of amazing things to teach and to share." Just because something's different doesn't make it bad or wrong, and I think sometimes that gets really missed on these trips, so I encourage... On the other hand, they are great ways for people to get out and to learn things they wouldn't learn. I do just encourage people to really investigate the organizations that they're going with and make sure that the values of that organization align with their reasons and what they hope to get out of it.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. That's really important. I want to talk about Black women and women of color who work in the international aid space. I am very interested to hear your thoughts about this because I know that there are people in our community listening who are working in these spaces, even some of them as volunteers as well in some of these spaces, right?
Tjada McKenna:
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Amena Brown:
I think sometimes there is this element... I'll say for me, having done some work in nonprofit world, having had nonprofit clients, worked with nonprofit events, I think sometimes it's a part of it when we are entering a space where we're working with an organization that is, air quotes here, "doing good", a part of why we do that sometimes is coming from this good place in our heart, we want to affect change, we want to see people who are under-resourced have the resources that they deserve.
We sort of enter the space with our hearts open and our hands open and we're here to do these things, and I think because we're in a do-good environment we are thinking and hoping that everyone else there is also here to be open-hearted, is also here to sort of gather communally while we try to do all these things. Whereas some of the Black women, women of color I know, for example, who work in corporate America, there are certain bottom lines and certain types of things we expect in corporate America because it's pretty clear a lot of us that have worked in corporate that this is about making money, you know?
Tjada McKenna:
Yes. Yeah.
Amena Brown:
This is about making money, this is about maybe I'm here trying to make money, we know the CEO here trying to make... The C-suite. Everybody is here from the C-suite down to the entry level position because we're here trying to make money, so I think there are certain things when we're in corporate that we just sort of expect to be cutthroat at some times, we expect a certain environment. I think some of us walked into international aid, walked into nonprofit space thinking in some ways maybe we were entering a bit of a utopia, maybe it wasn't like corporate America.
Then we got inside and we're like, "Yikes." Some things I needed to think a bit differently. I would love to hear from your experience what are some tips you would give to Black women and women of color who may be in nonprofit space, they may be working in international aid space, they may be considering work in these areas. What are the tips and things you would say now if you could look back at yourself starting that you would say to your young self, "Hey, think about this. Do these things?" What are some thoughts you have on that?
Tjada McKenna:
The way you prefaced this question is... It gets to my number one piece of advice because I think it's easier... When you walk into a profit-making company, you're not expecting them to have all these values, you're not expecting a certain treatment. I think that's one of the first things I tell people is to protect their heart because all of these are organizations that suffer from the same societal things that every place else suffers, so people with their unconscious biases, people where there's going to be favoritism, sometimes people are going to disagree or not act in the most charitable way or the ways that are consistent with the values of the organization.
I think being prepared for that and not letting that... Because I think when your heart is hurt on that level, it becomes even... It sends you down a much deeper spiral and it's a lot harder to overcome, and that might be become the animating thing. I always encourage people to walk in with that same sense of, for lack of a better word, defensiveness, walk in knowing what you're worth, what you're supposed to be doing, and expecting that kind of treatment and, if it doesn't come or things don't happen, to not be hurt by it but to push back and also realize we're in an organization with these dynamics. One thing I absolutely hate about the nonprofit sector or there's this mentality sometimes, and I think the public does it as well, the organizations, that you should accept far less pay or you should not because this is good work. I had a boss who used to brag about never taking pay raises. Well, that man lived off of his trust fund, okay?
Amena Brown:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Tjada McKenna:
I do not need to have a trust fund to work there, so it's like, "Pay me what I'm worth and pay me fairly. Yes, the pay scale is not going to be the same, but pay me fairly. Me being here and bringing my talents to this is not a gift to the world. We're all here to do good, but if you..." I'd say this for organizations too. If you're trying to do good work, if you're trying to be professional and be efficient, then that also means you need to have professionals who understand what they're doing, otherwise you're kind of wasting people's money and energy. I think kind of know who you are, know what you're worth, and don't be scared to leave. If you can't resolve those issues within the culture, know that you need to go someplace else.
I think because nonprofits, because there aren't bonuses to give away or because there aren't some of these other incentives, sometimes people will put up with things that they shouldn't and sometimes organizations will allow a certain level of toxicity to emerge kind of accidentally either because of favoritism or just because it's like this assumption, "Everyone's here to do good work, so I don't want to tell people when they're not." I think just us maintaining our standards, especially because when we leave we need to still be competitive and do things outside as well, right?
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Tjada McKenna:
But walk in being strong and knowing who you are and be prepared to walk if it's not treating you in that way.
Amena Brown:
Come on, Tjada. Don't be scared to leave is the part that really touched me. That's the part that really touched me because I am a person who enjoys work connected to my values. For better or for worse in my career, that's been true of me, so when I've been in work situations where I'm like, "Oh, this doesn't really connect with me," I have a hard time sort of disconnecting from that.
Tjada McKenna:
Yes. Yeah. I had to accept... Yeah. There was a place I left that had some real race issues, underlying things, and a lot of issues. At some point I realized, "Wait, this is just not for me. I am not the issue here. Who I am is very clear. This is not a space for me, and that's unfortunate because they're trying to do a lot of work for people that look like me. I will call it out and I will try to get them to be better, but ultimately the best thing for my sanity and for a better use of my skills is to walk away." Sometimes I think too we'll take things personally. It's just hard when it's really close to your heart in the work, it's harder to let go, it's harder not to take it personally. I think it's okay to acknowledge that some environments are just not for me and to try to move into spaces that we can make ours.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. I love that. I also feel that it's so powerful that you're speaking to the empowerment of saying, "This may not be for me, and in that case it is okay for me to walk away," because I think there are a lot of folks of color, queer folks, disabled folks that end up working in these types of spaces that then are made to feel like, "Oh, well, you're there for a reason. You're supposed to fix it from the inside out." Then people who already have all this other stuff on them when they walk into the workplace are now being tasked with additional work and additional things that were not even a part of the job that they were hired to do.
I think there is such power in saying, "First of all, it's not my job to come in here and fix your entire organization from the inside out. If you wanted that, there is a fee you can pay for consultants, there is a fee you can pay for people who do that type of infrastructural work with an organization, but you don't hire me for this position I've been hired and then say, 'Well, because you're Black or because you're from a marginalized group now it's also your job to help us learn how to be less racist or help us learn how to be less homophobic.'" It's just-
Tjada McKenna:
Yeah. I warn people, I say... I did all the things. I was on the Black employee things, I volunteered, but I also tell people now I know that I would not take a diversity, equity, and inclusion job because it is too painful for me to see wrong. It's just too painful for me, and so there's an emotional toll that it will take on me where I cannot do it. Other people can. That's something I warn people, even with these employee groups and other things, I'm like, "This is volunteer labor. People are not going... Make sure that you're doing really well at your own job first because people are going to think this is fun for you or it's not the real extra thing when it is. When you can't negotiate that, just know that and take into account where you are in your whole life and your whole being and if that's what you want to be doing with yourself. Also challenge the other employers to be like, 'Hey.'"
At the end of the day, I think we've all learned, Black people, we're not the ones to fix racism. We don't benefit from it, we're not the ones practicing it, so the people that are need to take accountability and really own it and so looking at ways to make sure others are facing that burden or accepting it. If they're not, if people are just turning the work back on you, then you also have a sign that they're not serious people.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. That they're not serious people. Tjada, a word. Yes, that's a word. I want to talk about Black women in leadership and how we care for ourselves. I have a lot of Black women in my sort of personal life that are my friends, and then of course I feel like all of us as Black women also have the Black women that I would say are our colleagues. They're our friends, but they're also in our field too so they know a bit about the work we're doing. This is a constant conversation. I think as Black women in leadership, we... Anyone in leadership has... You have the things. You may have family things that you've got going on, you've got your own personal life, to drink water and breathe and et cetera, but I find that a lot of the Black women in my life that I know personally and professionally, we have our jobs, we have our families, we have other community work that we have going, we may have family members or people in our lives that we are caring for, whether that's our children or parents.
Tjada McKenna:
I'm leaving this interview and going to the hospital to figure out next steps for my mother's care. Speak on it.
Amena Brown:
It's like we have all these things, which means when we are in leadership positions where our responsibilities are high at our jobs, it requires even more care from us for ourselves. What would you say are some things in this season of life that are helping you care for yourself with all that you may carry in your life?
Tjada McKenna:
Yeah. I think there are two things I really focus on, and obviously I'm always taking ideas because I think this self-care element is critically important to us, but one is relationships. I'm in a sorority, so talking to my sorors. There's a text chain with my line sisters that we're on all the time. A group of them are in Alaska at this moment. It's just making sure to take the trips, to make the time to have that close network of girlfriends. We're all navigating our career journeys and supporting each other through it. Family support. I happen to have a very supportive husband who does a lot and absorbs a lot. But yeah, I really focus on keeping those relationships that keep me sane and those people that care about me strong. The other side, too, is I'm forever telling people to put on your life jacket first. I've gotten much better over the years at saying no, right?
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Tjada McKenna:
Because there are things I can't... I just acknowledge that I can't do everything at the same time, and so there are times I just have to say, "No. No, I can't be the school mom for this. No, I can't do this." I've gotten really comfortable saying that because I just need the time and space to myself for my own to be the best that I need to be everywhere else. I have to say no to a lot of things.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. It's a really practical thing you said. On one hand, sometimes it is just hard to say no, and on the other hand, the times I have I'm like, "Whew, that was freeing. I just don't have to go to that. I just don't have to do that."
Tjada McKenna:
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Walk into things dreading it like, "Why did I say yes?" It's just like, "Why am I putting that stress on myself, right?"
Amena Brown:
Yeah.
Tjada McKenna:
But it all comes from the optic of really making sure that you're putting yourself first and thinking of it and that you have people around you who are pointing out when you are failing at that.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think I've been a person, and I would say this is true of many of us as Black women as well, I think I've been a person who loves to sort of give love externally. It's like I love to support the people in my life, I love to give to them, I love to be nurturing to them. My therapist was like, "You know you your own best friend too, right? You know that energy you're giving to people?"
Tjada McKenna:
So hard.
Amena Brown:
"It's not that it's bad that you want to do that, but give it to you too. Your girlfriend has surgery and you will go to her house and make soup for her and do these things. It's wonderful that you do it. Would you get the soup for you or would you let someone else make the soup for you?" I think that also helps us in what you were saying too of just building community with people who care about who we are not just what we do, that we matter to them in full, that they're going to look at you and say, "If you don't go to sleep... Goodnight. I do not want to see you at no meetings, no events, no more. Go to bed. Eat a vegetable." People in your life that want that kind of care for you. It's just beautiful, so I love that you brought that up there.
Tjada McKenna:
No, it's... I travel a lot for my work, obviously, and it's almost all international. One of my colleagues is really good at just she'll build in the extra half day to go get the massage, to do the thing, and I'm always usually just rushing home. I need to get home, but... She's encouraged me, and so sometimes I do build in the time like, "Look, I need this afternoon or I need to do something nice so I'm not just in and out of places and just could be anywhere in the world and not even paying attention."
Amena Brown:
Right. Oh, I love that. Okay, I have two more questions because y'all know I could really talk to Tjada forever.
Tjada McKenna:
I know. We could go... Because, I mean, your living room is so comfortable.
Amena Brown:
Oh my gosh. Okay. I want to talk about how we support international aid. We are... On the one hand, having been a person who sort of grew... I've been around long enough now, Tjada, that we grew up without the internet in part, right?
Tjada McKenna:
Mm-hmm. Me too. [inaudible 00:36:05].
Amena Brown:
Okay. Before MySpace and whatever that is, so what you knew needed support, there were some things you just didn't know because we didn't have as much access, especially here in America. We didn't have as much access to what was happening internationally all the time, whereas now we have social media, you have all these things, and we talk a lot about compassion fatigue in a way that people are just like, "What should I care about? What should I support?" What would be your thoughts you would give folks that are just practical things we can think about as we are reading the news and watching our... I'm still going to say Twitter. I'm sorry, y'all. That's just how it's going to be. Still watching our tweets.
Tjada McKenna:
[laughs].
Amena Brown:
Whatever that man said doesn't apply to me, it's still Twitter. We're reading our tweets, we're seeing the things that are coming across hashtags, we're trying to think about what can we do, and sometimes in our feeling overwhelmed then we either don't do anything or we're not sure how to take in what we're reading. What would be your thoughts about that as it relates to how we can be global citizens, in a sense?
Tjada McKenna:
Thank you. There are a couple of things I will say about that. I think one, really making sure that we are fighting the narrative in our hearts. Foreign assistance, what we consider aid, is less than one half of 1% of the US budget, for those who are Americans listening to this. It's really easy to get caught up in like, "Look at all the money that's going for this or why are they giving all this money to Ukrainians? We have to start at home." There's a lot we do at home. Americans are very generous at home. We also have social safety nets that just may not exist in some other places. Virtually every single place my organization does work, there is not Social Security, there's not unemployment, there aren't medical facilities near them. The level of safety net is different.
We have very desperately poor places in the US that need support and there are places in other countries that may be even worse off, so it's not an or, it's an and. I think especially when you go to these places and spend time, these people are you and me. A lot of times they look like us, they have the same dreams, they want better lives for their children, they care about their family. These are really... I like to think of it as how do we just empower everyone to be able to self-actualize and be their best self? I would fight this narrative of "only at home" or "we give too much to everyone else" because the numbers are very skewed.
The second thing is look at the full picture of need. There's a lot of attention right now to Ukraine, which the Ukrainians definitely deserve the support. There are lots of crises around the world that everyone deserves that same attention that the Ukrainians are getting. There has been a crippling drought in the Horn of Africa, so people in Somalia, parts of Kenya and Ethiopia suffering and literally starving to death, flooding in other parts of the world. Don't forget about those other places of help.
I would encourage you to support organizations, even if it's like $5 a month or $50 here and there, support organizations that are working in those places that share your values because, at the end of the day, the money that we get, we're trying to allocate as much as we can to those forgotten crises, so for the people in Somalia, the people in Sudan who need support now that the government has fallen apart, Niger. There's a lot that's on the news, and of course we'll get funding for that, but we're also trying to get additional funds for all these other places that just aren't getting the level of attention they deserve. So stay open-hearted, think of it as and not or, and whatever you can contribute, honestly even $5 a month, is helpful.
Amena Brown:
Oh, that's so helpful.
Tjada McKenna:
It does not go to waste.
Amena Brown:
Yeah, so practical. Thank you so much for that because I think there is a way that we just can kind of get like, "Okay, well, there's so many things, there's so many things. What do I do?" You can kind of look to your own value system and, as you were saying, you can find ways. There are various ways that we can be supportive here. Sometimes for people you're like, "What if I don't have the $5?" There's a way you can spread the word maybe about some of these things.
Tjada McKenna:
Yes, even spread the word, spread a post so that someone else might, "Oh, okay, maybe I can't give right now but maybe someone else can give." Or just even spreading awareness of these other things that are not breaking into mainstream media and realizing these things don't have to be like this. There's so much... You talked about the fatigue. There's so much coming at us that it just all seems hopeless or like, "Oh, there's always some drought over there. I'm not doing..." No, these things do not have to be like this. People do not have to suffer in these ways. We cannot accept these things as status quo, that cannot get better. Even if you think of a situation, individual people's lives can be made better.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. I love that. I want to close with this question, Tjada. I love to talk about joy, and I especially think it's important when I'm talking to someone who is doing the type of work that you are. I know that on the hand, working with Mercy Corps and being at the helm of an organization like this, I know that you and your colleagues obviously see a lot of hard things, you see a lot of hard stories, you see a lot of things that you wish were not the case. I know also in your work you see some things that just make you go, "Yes, that is why we're doing what we're doing. That is what keeps me going." I always want to know what is bringing you joy. Is it a snack? Is it some people in your life? Is it a show you love? Are there parts of your work... Just talk to us about how joy also plays a role in what keeps you going in your work.
Tjada McKenna:
Yes, yes. I do... Part of the work we do is you see people emerge on the other side or you see people being able to do things that they thought they wouldn't be able to do. That's joy. For me in my day-to-day life, I have two beautiful sons that are eight and 10 years old. I like just looking at them be happy, the Black boy joy, the fact that I'm able to provide certain things and experiences for them, that's pure joy. The other thing that's brought even more joy and love into my life is we are the brand new parents to two puppies, so we have two dogs under the age of one right now. There is... It took a while for us to feel like we were ready for dogs again and that level of care, but I could never overestimate the amount of joy that they have brought to my family and what they do for me on a bad day. I do feel very fortunate that in the midst of it all, I do get to see the good sides and my children. I mean, there are definitely tough days with the boys, don't get me wrong.
Amena Brown:
Sure, sure. Absolutely.
Tjada McKenna:
Especially when they are being tough, the puppies. The puppies do it every time. So yeah, you're right. We have to find that joy. We have to.
Amena Brown:
Yeah. Oh, I love that, Tjada. I've been on the precipice since the pandemic started of like, "Am I a person who wants to get a dog?"
Tjada McKenna:
Do it, do it, do it. If you have the time and the energy, I would say... We got puppies. I would say go get a dog that's older, that's already trained because that part has not been joy. But yeah, I definitely undervalued just the therapeutic effect that sometimes coming in the house and just snuggling up with one of those dogs has provided to me, and watching my boys, seeing the side of them that loves those dogs to death has also just warmed my heart.
Amena Brown:
Oh, I love that so much. Tjada, thank you for sharing not only your story with us, but you gave us a lot of practical things we can think about in our work and the different things we can be more supportive of, the different things that may need our support. So just thank you for that, and also thank you for the path that I know you are carving that will make this path even hopefully easier and that will make people after you have an easier way, there'll be less barriers because you were there to actually push some of those things down. I want to say thank you for that, and I wish you great naps, Tjada. I wish for you to have delicious snacks.
Tjada McKenna:
Yes, yes. Thank you. This has been so much fun. Thank you so much.
Amena Brown:
Thanks a lot.
Tjada McKenna:
Can I tell you where people can find us or find me?
Amena Brown:
Yes. Yes. I want you to tell me everything. How can the people connect with you? How can the people be connected with the work you're involved in? Tell us all the things.
Tjada McKenna:
Yeah. Thank you. Personally, I am on... Like we said, we still call it Twitter, and my Twitter handle is @ and Tjada, but my name is spelled T as in Tom, J-A-D-A. There's a silent T at the beginning. If you just look up Tjada, T-J-A-D-A, you'll find me on Twitter. If you're interested in learning more about Mercy Corps, which I hope you do, we're fabulous, it's @mercycorps, M-E-R-C-Y-C-O-R-P-S, or www.mercycorps.org. We'd love to have your support, so thanks everyone.
Amena Brown:
Thank you so much, Tjada. I love that. Go to all those links, everyone. Yes. Get you some Swedish Fish. Thank you so much, Tjada.
Tjada McKenna:
Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Amena. Have a good one.
Amena Brown:
HER with Amena Brown is produced by Matt Owen for Sol Graffiti Productions as a part of the Seneca Women Podcast Network in partnership with iHeartRadio. Thanks for listening and don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast.